The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 02:35pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,378
By George, He's Got it ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
If a player on a rebound tapped the ball away from opposing rebounders once or several times without establishing player control, do you think that should be illegal also as per the same logic of intentionally and deliberately keeping the ball away from his opponents? Is that unfair also? That's a fairly common play.
It certainly is. Would you let this player do that for eighty-four feet?

You did bring up a key word that I believe that I didn't use in my original post. Player control. A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. Even though the player was only controlling the ball with one hand as it rolled across the floor, could I have ruled that player control exsited here, and that the player moved illegally while controlling the ball, and thus, had traveled?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 02:37pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
It certainly is. Would you let this player do that for eighty-four feet?

You did bring up a key word that I believe that I didn't use in my original post. Player control. A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. Even though the player was only controlling the ball with one hand as it rolled across the floor, could I have ruled that player control exsited here, and that the player moved illegally while controlling the ball, and thus, had traveled?
You could have ruled it, but your ruling would not be supported by rule. JMO
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 02:55pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,378
Pardon My French ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Your ruling would not be supported by rule.
A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds.

Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits
while holding the ball.

Once I make a judgment that the player is in control of the ball, then I've got rule support. N'est-ce pas?

Hey guys. I'm not saying that I made the right call (traveling), or that I made the right decision that this was somehow illegal. I'm not trying to get out of this by pushing the envelope. I knew coming into this that I was on shaky ground.

It's just that I can't see allowing a player to tap a rebound in the air like a volleyball for eighty-four feet, or bobble a ball after catching a pass for eighty-four feet, or play roller hockey with a ball for eighty-four feet, and have it be legal? It just doesn't make any sense to me? Does it make sense to the NFHS? That's my question. Do you think that they consider any of these three actions legal?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 03:10pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds.

Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits
while holding the ball.

Once I make a judgment that the player is in control of the ball, then I've got rule support. N'est-ce pas?
In control is defined by rule. The player in question was neither holding nor dribbling, thus not in control.

Quote:
Hey guys. I'm not saying that I made the right call (traveling), or that I made the right decision that this was somehow illegal. I'm not trying to get out of this by pushing the envelope. I knew coming into this that I was on shaky ground.

It's just that I can't see allowing a player to tap a rebound in the air like a volleyball for eighty-four feet, or bobble a ball after catching a pass for eighty-four feet, or play roller hockey with a ball for eighty-four feet, and have it be legal? It just doesn't make any sense to me? Does it make sense to the NFHS? That's my question. Do you think that they consider any of these three actions legal?
I don't think they have given great consideration to these actions one way or another, because they never happen.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 03:18pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,378
Player Control, Team Control, Backcourt ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
In control is defined by rule. The player in question was neither holding nor dribbling, thus not in control.
We've debated whether, or not, an offensive player who "taps" a rebound to a teammate in his backcourt has player control. Why not my situation? Can a player who is intentionally, and deliberately, rolling the ball on the court, to gain an advantage, be considered to be "holding" the ball, and thus have player control?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Jan 30, 2011 at 03:20pm.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 03:24pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Can a player who is intentionally, and deliberately, rolling the ball on the court, to gain an advantage, be considered to be "holding" the ball, and thus have player control?
In a word,


NO.

Realistically, I think this might be a good question if it was something that happened more than once in a career. The fact is, if a player rolls the ball on the floor, it's not gonna gain him an advantage, because somebody else is gonna pick it up.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove

Last edited by just another ref; Sun Jan 30, 2011 at 03:26pm.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 03:38pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,378
Advantage Not Intended By A Rule ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
In a word, NO. Realistically, I think this might be a good question if it was something that happened more than once in a career. The fact is, if a player rolls the ball on the floor, it's not gonna gain him an advantage, because somebody else is gonna pick it up.
I want you to get the facts straight. The first time he rolled, after the fumble, it he didn't gain an advantage, and actually put himself at a disadvantage (as you state). The second, and third, time he rolled the ball he intentionally, and deliberately, tapped the ball so that it rolled away from the two defenders. That, in my opinion, is certainly an advantage, however, the question is, is this an advantage that is not intended by a rule?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Jan 30, 2011 at 03:42pm.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 02:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
It certainly is. Would you let this player do that for eighty-four feet?
Can you cite a rule that says he can't? No.

Quote:
You did bring up a key word that I believe that I didn't use in my original post. Player control. A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. Even though the player was only controlling the ball with one hand as it rolled across the floor, could I have ruled that player control exsited here, and that the player moved illegally while controlling the ball, and thus, had traveled?
Can you cite a rule that says you can? No.

You can turn this into a 10 page thread but the answer is still, "It's not a violation by rule."
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is the correct call? ozzy6900 Baseball 41 Fri Oct 24, 2008 05:33pm
Is My Call Correct? RCBSports Basketball 7 Mon Mar 17, 2008 04:12pm
Was this the correct call LouisianaDave Basketball 10 Wed Feb 14, 2007 04:32pm
Correct Call? scottbono Baseball 18 Thu Jun 30, 2005 08:36pm
What is the correct call ? msoa Basketball 14 Fri Jan 07, 2000 01:30am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:29am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1