Two officials, two opinions, one bad night.

[McMac]

Let me start by saying, I have worked with this partner about 2 weeks ago, not a nice partner (P) to work with, but a game with the same P tonight. Went in with mindset that P had a bad night last time.

Let the fun begin. MS G/B DH. Early in G game, both partner and I call a foul on B1 against A1. I go straight up, P goes up, then crossed for intentional. I have no issues with that. It was the following application of the penalties that was frustrating. I administer the 2 shots. P is at table after both have been shot, discussing things. I join at the table. P says that the intentional is recorded in the book as both a Personal and T. I told my partner that this is not correct. We get in a brief disagreement (which I regret) in front of the scorer's table. I drop my case as my P is adamant that it is a T. We agree to check the rule book at half.

We check it at half, and lo and behold, I was right. Rule 4-19-3 defines it as a personal or a technical (which is not the case here). I also point to 10-6-Penalty 4 and 7-5-4 for all that we need to rest this. P says that it is not the interpretation he reads.

Partner also is mechanically lacking in how switching in 2 man should go. On a foul going down court, we switch. Thanks for making me look stupid. On in-bounds plays, I don't know whether P is becoming trail or lead, table or opposite. Talk about frustrating.

In the B game, I called an OOB on a ball over the backboard. P calls me over and asks why I called it dead. I said it crossed over the backboard. P says it has to touch something. No more arguing, we go the correct way.

Player fouls out of the G game. Shooting 2 shots, A had a sub already at the table, I tell player and coach that it is the 5, player goes to bench, replacement comes in and I also let A sub in per 3-3-1-c-EXCEPTION.

I know I am not the best official, but I take great strides to know the rules to the best of my ability. When someone questions a ruling I have made that I know without the shadow of a doubt is correct, I take some offense. When you try and question half of my calls, I just get angry. I was ready to leave the gym if P had questioned another simple rule. I would never do this to the players as the game is for them, not for me.

Sorry for the long, vent-like post, but please tell me if I was mistaken in any of the rulings. I appreciate the feedback I get back from this board as I know there are strong officials on here.

[APG]

In this case, get in, get done, get out. Also I would try and contact someone in your chapter or your assigner about your partner's lack of basic rules knowledge to try and educate him. Lastly, if your experience with this partner was that horrible, I would consider scratching him.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by allpurposegamer

in this case, get in, get done, get out. Also i would try and contact someone in your chapter or your assigner about your partner's lack of basic rules knowledge to try and educate him. Lastly, if your experience with this partner was that horrible, i would consider scratching him.

+1

[RobbyinTN]

Were you the R or U1?

[McMac]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

Were you the R or U1?

I was the R, partner was the U.

[Adam]

R or U isn't relevant. You still can't over rule.

[RobbyinTN]

True but it gives you an idea of the experience level of his partner since he was the U in a MS game. Here U1s are 1 to 3 year officials

Not sure how it works where you are but here the R is 99.9% of the time the more experience official so it sounds like (both by his actions and the fact he was the U1 in a MS game) you were working with a relatively new official - and one who thought he knew everything. He probably had been calling wreck ball if anything.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

True but it gives you an idea of the experience level of his partner since he was the U in a MS game. Here U1s are 1 to 3 year officials

Not sure how it works where you are but here the R is 99.9% of the time the more experience official so it sounds like (both by his actions and the fact he was the U1 in a MS game) you were working with a relatively new official - and one who thought he knew everything. He probably had been calling wreck ball if anything.

With few exceptions, we would alternate between R and U in a doubleheader such as this. In most cases in our Varsity games, we rotate R, U1 and U2 throughout the year. Many of our crews now do this. Of course, there are still some "old schoolers" who wouldn't know how to start a game without a ball in his/her hands.

[McMac]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

True but it gives you an idea of the experience level of his partner since he was the U in a MS game. Here U1s are 1 to 3 year officials

Not sure how it works where you are but here the R is 99.9% of the time the more experience official so it sounds like (both by his actions and the fact he was the U1 in a MS game) you were working with a relatively new official - and one who thought he knew everything. He probably had been calling wreck ball if anything.

I have been working basketball since 2004 (college intramurals), MS since 2005, HS since 2007. I moved to my new district this season, so I am working up the ranks of my new district. Partner is a former/current? coach who also is getting into officiating. I have found that typically the R is the more experienced official in this district.

And I understand that I have no place to overrule P's call. I can offer insight to correct the call, but ultimately it is his call to live or die with. Table even was like that is a new one on us (the T on an intentional). THAT SHOULD BE A SIGN! V book was the B HC and was kind of surprised by the ruling. I know coaches don't know all the rules either, but when people are like I didn't know that, it should send off some bells somewhere.

[RobbyinTN]

Originally Posted by McMac

Partner is a former/current? coach who also is getting into officiating.

That explains a lot. The few former coaches/turn officials I have worked with have been a pain in the a$$ because they think they know everything since they use to coach.

My apologies to any officials here that were also coaches. I know one size does not fit all - this has just been my experience.

[RobbyinTN]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

With few exceptions, we would alternate between R and U in a doubleheader such as this. In most cases in our Varsity games, we rotate R, U1 and U2 throughout the year. Many of our crews now do this. Of course, there are still some "old schoolers" who wouldn't know how to start a game without a ball in his/her hands.

I guess that would work but we don't do that here. We are assigned the position (R, U1 or U2) and usually it is based on either experience or a less experienced official may be the R if he/she is the better official.

As far as once we get to the game we may change up. I will let a less experience official be the R, especially in sub varsity games so they can get some experience at the R slot.

[McMac]

District Chair just emailed me back and said he has been an issue with multiple officials and schools. I will not have to work with him again. Thank you Lord.

[Terrapins Fan]

A post like this helps everyone prepare for situations. I enjoyed all the comments, sorry you had to go through it, but it does help others.

Sometimes you've got to get in, get done and get out....

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by McMac

District Chair just emailed me back and said he has been an issue with multiple officials and schools. I will not have to work with him again. Thank you Lord.

I hope no one else has to work with him either.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

That explains a lot. The few former coaches/turn officials I have worked with have been a pain in the a$$ because they think they know everything since they use to coach.

In my experience, it has depended on the individual. We have a fair amount of coaches and ex-coaches officiate with us, and the great majority have been good additions for us.