I violated rule #1.....not THAT rule #1

[stir22]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

First, I don't consider lowering the shoulder an "automatic" call, as there is no specific provision in the rules for such. Remember, you are still trying to determine who initiates contact, and whether such contact is illegal and puts the other player at a disadvantage. While it is probably a good indication that someone who lowers their shoulder might indeed be trying to push their way through, or clear out space, it is not an automatic. I've seen players lower their shoulder to protect from an onrushing defender, for example.

In your second question, I'm not quite following - are you saying you've been told not to give a T to an assistant coach, because it would also be an indirect to the HC? If so, that would be bad advice. That is exactly the reason you would inform the HC that they are indeed responsible for the behavior of their benches, and if the HC cannot control it, the HC will also be penalized with the indirect.

so, forgive my ignorance, but sometimes i have a hard time reading the legalese the way the rule book is written.

so, if the assistant coach gets a t, it is an indirect to the head coach.

we're shooting only two, though, right?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by stir22

so, forgive my ignorance, but sometimes i have a hard time reading the legalese the way the rule book is written.

so, if the assistant coach gets a t, it is an indirect to the head coach.

we're shooting only two, though, right?

Correct. With the added penalty of the HC losing the coaching box priviledges.

[26 Year Gap]

There is a great summary of technical fouls following the rules section. I refer to it several times during the season. No shots for indirect...they are given because of someone else's infraction.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by stir22

so, forgive my ignorance, but sometimes i have a hard time reading the legalese the way the rule book is written.

so, if the assistant coach gets a t, it is an indirect to the head coach.

we're shooting only two, though, right?

You've got it. Any direct technical foul on bench personnel (you can read the definitions to determine who is bench personnel when) is also an indirect on the head coach.

There is never an indirect T without a direct T. And only the direct T is penalized in the form of free throws and possession. The only impact of an indirect T is that it ends the coach's coaching box privileges and counts as one of his three toward ejection.

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

You've got it. Any direct technical foul on bench personnel (you can read the definitions to determine who is bench personnel when) is also an indirect on the head coach.

There is never an indirect T without a direct T. And only the direct T is penalized in the form of free throws and possession. The only impact of an indirect T is that it ends the coach's coaching box privileges and counts as one of his three toward ejection.

And to add incase some may not know, (not you jdw sure you do) the "t" on the assistant only counts as a foul towards the total team foul count. It sounds like two since its an indirect on the Head coach as well. For instance, if the black team had four team fouls and during a time out the asstant gets a "T" the team foul count would now say five team fouls. The head coach as has been already mentioned now has an indirect "t" and his happily sitting!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

And to add incase some may not know, (not you jdw sure you do) the "t" on the assistant only counts as a foul towards the total team foul count. It sounds like two since its an indirect on the Head coach as well. For instance, if the black team had four team fouls and during a time out the asstant gets a "T" the team foul count would now say five team fouls. The head coach as has been already mentioned now has an indirect "t" and his happily sitting!

Why's is gotta be the "black" team?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why's is gotta be the "black" team?

Because "African American" has too many syllables.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

And to add incase some may not know, (not you jdw sure you do) the "t" on the assistant only counts as a foul towards the total team foul count. It sounds like two since its an indirect on the Head coach as well. For instance, if the black team had four team fouls and during a time out the asstant gets a "T" the team foul count would now say five team fouls. The head coach as has been already mentioned now has an indirect "t" and his happily sitting!

Indirect Ts never count towards the foul count; they all have an accompanying direct. It's one foul, I'm not sure why people seem to think the indirect would count towards the team foul count.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Indirect Ts never count towards the foul count; they all have an accompanying direct. It's one foul, I'm not sure why people seem to think the indirect would count towards the team foul count.

This has been a common source of discussion almost annually at preseason meetings. Some have a hard time wrapping their minds around the indirect T. I always try to explain that the indirect isn't actually a foul. It's simply a way of tracking how many Ts have been called on bench personnel.

Once one grabs the concept that an indirect T never happens without an accompanying direct T, it seems to click.

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

This has been a common source of discussion almost annually at preseason meetings. Some have a hard time wrapping their minds around the indirect T. I always try to explain that the indirect isn't actually a foul. It's simply a way of tracking how many Ts have been called on bench personnel.


Once one grabs the concept that an indirect T never happens without an accompanying direct T, it seems to click.

Agreed, I explain this to people (3-4) every year. Some are even officials!

I'll try to incorporate that wording, thanks. It just doesn't seem that confusing, but I have little rules that I get hung up on that other people master with no problem. One I have to slowly go through is when the opponents make a basket in the wrong hoop.