Legal dribble or not?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

There are 43 responses to the OP. You have 14 of them -- more than anyone else. Most are variations on the card game crap and add nothing to what is (at least to me) an interesting intellectual exercise.

Cut it out.

Please.

Bob, there are 43 threads in which Billy has posted "excessive" jokes. In 14 of them, you've objected -- more than anyone else.

Cut it out.

Please.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Bob, there are 43 threads in which Billy has posted "excessive" jokes. In 14 of them, you've objected -- more than anyone else.

Cut it out.

Please.

For the record, Bob said what I was thinking.

[Eastshire]

I personally like the elegance of saying that since he hit his foot he didn't push the ball to the floor but to his foot and therefore didn't start a dribble.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Most are variations on the card game crap and add nothing to what is (at least to me) an interesting intellectual exercise. Cut it out. Please. On the OP, I'm ruling it legal.

I also, from the get go, found it to be an interesting intellectual challange. In most of my posts I not only voiced my opinion, and my reasons for said opinion, but also chose to use "pretend" parlimentary procedure, a chess game, and later a poker game, analogy to challenge others to keep the debate going. Seldom did I just post an analogy.

Appreciate the "Please".

Regarding the OP being legal, how about my followup situation?

A1 receives a pass and releases the ball to start a dribble. The ball hits the top of his foot, never touching the floor, and bounces straight up. A1 then catches the ball with both hands, and starts a new dribble? What do you got?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A1 receives a pass and releases the ball to start a dribble. The ball hits the top of his foot, never touching the floor, and bounces straight up. A1 then catches the ball with both hands, and starts a new dribble? What do you got?

If I really saw that, legal (assuming there was no other violation).

In practice, I think I'd think the ball had hit the floor.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If I really saw that, legal (assuming there was no other violation).

Would you consider tihs a fumble followed by a dribble?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If I really saw that, legal (assuming there was no other violation).

Would you consider this a fumble followed by a dribble?

[SNIPERBBB]

After going through the dribble and travel rules, assuming that "to the floor" means the ball has to hit the floor to be a "dribble", the play is legal if the player doesnt travel before hand. If this would happen during a dribble, it would be a an illegal dribble in billy's play.


Though I think this play would only occur in bizzarro world because I still cannot imagine any situation to where a dribbler can do this without another player touching the ball.

[letemplay]

Kicked ball? My reason being, anyone able to get the ball to come immediately back to him may be doing some "purposeful maneuvering" meaning intent. I don't know that I would call that, nobody else has suggested it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

After going through the dribble and travel rules, assuming that "to the floor" means the ball has to hit the floor to be a "dribble", the play is legal if the player doesnt travel before hand.

Methinks you're assuming a little too much. By rule (4-15-3), the dribble started when the ball was pushed, thrown or batted to the floor. Iow, when the ball left the dribbler's hand(s).

Are you saying a player that:
1) it's legal to touch the ball twice before the ball hits the floor for the first time
on a dribble?
2) A player can travel during a dribble?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm ruling it legal.

Interesting.

Explanation as to why it's legal? Scrappy said that the ball was released to start a dribble and the ball was then touched twice by the dribbler before the ball hit the floor. That double-touch was during the same dribble, wasn't it? The definition of a "dribble" says that you push the ball to the floor, not to a foot. What am I missing?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Interesting.

Explanation as to why it's legal? Scrappy said that the ball was released to start a dribble and the ball was then touched twice by the dribbler before the ball hit the floor. That double-touch was during the same dribble, wasn't it? The definition of a "dribble" says that you push the ball to the floor, not to a foot. What am I missing?

If we follow that this is the same as the case play, then it would have to be an illegal dribble any time a player begins a dribble and the ball hits off his foot-even if the ball goes to a defender.

Agree?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

If we follow that this is the same as the case play, then it would have to be an illegal dribble any time a player begins a dribble and the ball hits off his foot-even if the ball goes to a defender.

Agree?

Why?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

If we follow that this is the same as the case play, then it would have to be an illegal dribble any time a player begins a dribble and the ball hits off his foot-even if the ball goes to a defender.

Agree?

Um, no. Afaik, by rule touching any other body part except the hand(s) during any single dribble is completely irrelevant. It's a violation to touch the ball twice with either hand during any single dribble. But simultaneously touching the ball with both hands isn't a violation. Doing so merely ends the dribble.

The usual understanding of a single dribble, again afaik, is hand--->floor---->hand. And if you touch the ball twice with a hand at any time between the total hand---->floor sequence, it's a violation.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Why?

Well, I'm asking. If the violation is for touching a dribble twice before it hits the floor (which is what it appears to me JR is saying), then any time a player begins a dribble and dribbles it off a foot (or knee, gut, head, whatever), that would be touching a dribble twice.

If I'm misreading what Jurassic is arguing, then I need straightened out. Perhaps he's saying that the player catching the ball off his foot is the second touching?