Legal dribble or not?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

A1 receives a pass and releases the ball to start a dribble. The ball hits the top of his foot, never touching the floor, and bounces straight up. A1 then bats the ball to the floor.

Violation for touching the ball twice during the same dribble, as per the RULING of 4.15.4SitD(a)-"Violation because the ball was touched twice by A1's hand(s) during a dribble before it touched the floor."

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Violation for touching the ball twice during the same dribble, as per the RULING of 4.15.4SitD(a)-"Violation because the ball was touched twice by A1's hand(s) during a dribble before it touched the floor."

So if a player is holding the ball, tosses it from one hand to the other, then pushes it to the floor, is that a violation?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

So if a player is holding the ball, tosses it from one hand to the other, then pushes it to the floor, is that a violation?

No, because the dribble doesn't start until he pushes it to the floor. This call hinges completely on whether A1 has to bat the ball "into the air" in order to be liable for this violation.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

No, because the dribble doesn't start until he pushes it to the floor.

That was my point above.

And even if it is during the dribble, I see the ball hitting a foot the same as hitting the floor. What if it's an opponent's foot? It hits and comes straight back up to the dribbler's hand, (very unlikely I know, but no more unlikely than off his own foot) is this a violation?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

That was my point above.

And even if it is during the dribble, I see the ball hitting a foot the same as hitting the floor. What if it's an opponent's foot? It hits and comes straight back up to the dribbler's hand, (very unlikely I know, but no more unlikely than off his own foot) is this a violation?

Opponents foot, I'd consider that an interrupted dribble that touches an opponent. New dribble.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Opponents foot, I'd consider that an interrupted dribble that touches an opponent. New dribble.

It's not an interrupted dribble because it didn't get away from the dribbler. It came straight back up. That is very unlikely, maybe even impossible, but it's still a given. The dribble didn't end, because the touch by the opponent caused no loss of control.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It's not an interrupted dribble because it didn't get away from the dribbler. It came straight back up. That is very unlikely, maybe even impossible, but it's still a given. The dribble didn't end, because the touch by the opponent caused no loss of control.

I'm considering this an interrupted dribble. The fact that a dribbler cannot possibly intend to dribble off his opponent's foot tells me that if it does, it got away from him. The fact that it, by a fluke of physics, bounced straight back to him does not change this, IMO.

[BillyMac]

Anything that I deemed, I now undeem.

I don't have another move because I'm stuck on the floor. Literally. The "pushes the ball to the floor" part of the definition is confusing me.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Violation for touching the ball twice during the same dribble, as per the RULING of 4.15.4SitD(a)-"Violation because the ball was touched twice by A1's hand(s) during a dribble before it touched the floor."

I would agree if A1 had already batted the ball to floor at least once. But in the OP I see it no different than standing in place and tossing the ball to himself before dribbling.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I would agree if A1 had already batted the ball to floor at least once. But in the OP I see it no different than standing in place and tossing the ball to himself before dribbling.

Which means that he can legally start a new dribble. Can I deem this now?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Which means that he can legally start a new dribble. Can I deem this now?

Not if he picks his pivot foot up in the process.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not if he picks his pivot foot up in the process.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I would agree if A1 had already batted the ball to floor at least once. But in the OP I see it no different than standing in place and tossing the ball to himself before dribbling.

Scrapper1 told us in the OP that A1 released the ball to start a dribble. Are you calling Scrappy a liar? Is there any reason you wouldn't believe Scrappy?

Or are you a resident of JARlandia also?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Scrapper1 told us in the OP that A1 released the ball to start a dribble. Are you calling Scrappy a liar? Is there any reason you wouldn't believe Scrappy?

Or are you a resident of JARlandia also?

Nope, but since the dribble never occurred I'm not ruling it a violation. The dribble was deferred.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Nope, but since the dribble never occurred I'm not ruling it a violation. The dribble was deferred.

Excellent. I'm back in the game.