Is this a foul?

[Bullycon]

A lot of controversy over last night's UTK-UGA game.

Here's the finish: YouTube - Tennessee's Brian Williams Sinks Falling Over The Back Buzzer Beater Against Georgia

I'm a football official, so I know what appears to be a foul isn't always a foul. I don't know the rules of basketball that well, and after skimming through the NCAA rulebook, I'm still not sure what should have been called here.

Did UTK's Williams foul UGA's Barnes? Or was Barnes the one who initiated contact by backing into Williams?

All I've learned for sure is there is no such thing as "over the back."

[JRutledge]

Based on the angles they show, I can live with what was called. The main issue I would like to see is if the arm was contacted before the ball. I cannot tell that the player from behind was not vertical. Actually it looked like the Georgia player might have backed up into the Tennessee player.

I took a closer look at the video, if anything the Georgia player grabbed the right arm of the Tennessee player. If anything was going to be called it should have been on the Georgia player.

Peace

[stiffler3492]

I agree with Rut. Sometimes, you get a taller player literally reaching over the top of a shorter player to grab a rebound. Take a look at the second replay. It looks to me like the UT player is moving backwards when he catches the ball and shoots it. I didn't see any contact that would be a foul prior to that.

I see this type of play alot in girls games, when one team has a really tall girl and the others are just average height.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

I agree with Rut. Sometimes, you get a taller player literally reaching over the top of a shorter player to grab a rebound. Take a look at the second replay. It looks to me like the UT player is moving backwards when he catches the ball and shoots it. I didn't see any contact that would be a foul prior to that.

I see this type of play alot in girls games, when one team has a really tall girl and the others are just average height.

From what we can see from the angles shown, I agree. If anything, it should be a call on the Georgia player - good no call IMHO.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Based on the angles they show, I can live with what was called. The main issue I would like to see is if the arm was contacted before the ball. I cannot tell that the player from behind was not vertical. Actually it looked like the Georgia player might have backed up into the Tennessee player.

I took a closer look at the video, if anything the Georgia player grabbed the right arm of the Tennessee player. If anything was going to be called it should have been on the Georgia player.

Peace

Great minds think alike even if one of them is a Western Illinois and UMichigan fan.

MTD, Sr.

[RobbyinTN]

There is such as a think as an "over the back" but usually it is more of through the back".

As far as the play in question, after looking at it several times and pausing it at the point of play, if I had to call anything I would call a hold on the GA player as the UT player had both hands on the ball and the GA player was holding onto his arm as he was falling into him. The question you have to answer is if the UT player truly had control of the ball at the point of the potential foul. I think he did after looking at it several times but at first glance in real time I would have went with no foul.

Robby

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

There is such as a think as an "over the back" but usually it is more of through the back".

Can you show anyone in the rulebook where that is stated as any violation of the rules?

Peace

[RobbyinTN]

True, in the rule book there is no "over the back" violation but there are times a push from behind during a rebound is an "over the back"/"through the back" foul; however, I have never reported a "over the back" foul at the table

I did have a rookie U one night that called "over the back" and used some weird mechanic I had never seen before or since not only did he use the wrong mechanic I don't think he was correct but he was Lead.

[Raymond]

If you watch the replay from the court level camera at the opposite end of the court you will see Williams was actually moving backwards away from the Georgia player when grabbed the rebound.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

True, in the rule book there is no "over the back" violation but there are times a push from behind during a rebound is an "over the back"/"through the back" foul; however, I have never reported a "over the back" foul at the table

I did have a rookie U one night that called "over the back" and used some weird mechanic I had never seen before or since not only did he use the wrong mechanic I don't think he was correct but he was Lead.

Was it the Boris Karloff mechanic?

[RobbyinTN]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Was it the Boris Karloff mechanic?

Yep - you got it. I told him at half time that "over the back" wasn't a valid call and his mechanic certainly wasn't in the book. I tried to explain the difference between going over teh top of someone to get the rebound without fouling and a push from behind to get to the ball. I am not sure he "got it" but at least there were no other weird mechnics that evening

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

True, in the rule book there is no "over the back" violation but there are times a push from behind during a rebound is an "over the back"/"through the back" foul; however, I have never reported a "over the back" foul at the table

I did have a rookie U one night that called "over the back" and used some weird mechanic I had never seen before or since not only did he use the wrong mechanic I don't think he was correct but he was Lead.

No, it's not over-the-back. When fans scream for that, they want the taller player punished for reaching into space (90% of the time). To even state "there is such a thing as over the back" is just flat out wrong; especially when talking to someone who's admittedly new to basketball rules.

[Adam]

Love the Frankenstein mechanics being displayed by the crowd.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Can you show anyone in the rulebook where that is stated as any violation of the rules?

Peace

I think he's contracted the truncated contraction disease that showed up here a day or so ago. I think he meant "isn't".

As for the play/call. Looked right to me. The UT rebounder was jumping away from the basket.....not likely to be a foul on him unless he grabs the player in front and drags him back too.

[just another ref]

I've said this before. Isn't the "there is no such thing as over the back" thing about to outlive his usefulness? Don't we know what they're asking for?


"Come on ref! That's a pushing foul on that guy trying to rebound over my guy who had inside position. I think he displaced him!"

Nobody complains when they yell "Walking!" That's not in the books either.