Forfeit Video

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Cobra

#20 is fouled. #23 is in the bottom right of the video when the foul occurs.

#20 is set to take the free throws, all other players behind the 3 point line, when the first technical foul is called. #23 then switches places with #20. #23 is in the free throw semicircle after the 2nd technical foul and is still there when the game is forfeited. I wonder if the officials noticed.

Hmmm..... deliberately sending the wrong FTer carries a penalty. One could interpret that #23, who went to the line on his own accord, didn't know that the penalties are administered in the order they occur. This is likely because in the NBE, I believe, that the T's are shot at POI. And likely they watch more NBE than have situations like this in their Fed games.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

That's what I was thinking.

And if there is going to be an X on the play, one has to come up with that soon after the whistle. Iow, don't surprise everyone with an X at the table. That's just mho.

Just saw it after seeing it again. I also saw the L having a much earlier whistler and foul call.

[GoodwillRef]

#23 only steps to the line after they called the first technical foul...#20 went to the line originally. Confused?

The lead and the trail almost reported the fouls side by side.

[JugglingReferee]

"Pay $3."

[Raymond]

At some point during sequence where the foul occurred did #20 black catch one of the defenders with an elbow to the face? I don't see anything connecting but the defender the official is walking away from the play does wipe at his nose.

Also, from this camera angle I don't see an intentional foul.

[fullor30]

In opening sequence when ball is inbounded opposite table, C is almost in back court??? Trail is deeper than he is? Looks like trail is motioning him to get to C. Notice play in question, you have two leads.

Personally, I didnt see anything to warrant an intentional foul. Hard to see on tape.

[jophyal]

noone sees any problem with offensive player having elbows above shoulders and doing a 360 while flailing them? just askin...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

At some point during sequence where the foul occurred did #20 black catch one of the defenders with an elbow to the face? I don't see anything connecting but the defender the official is walking away from the play does wipe at his nose.

Also, from this camera angle I don't see an intentional foul.

Originally Posted by jophyal

noone sees any problem with offensive player having elbows above shoulders and doing a 360 while flailing them? just askin...

I did notice. But looks like they were moving with his torso.

And after further viewing it appears the contact to the defenders face was from an accidental headbutt from Black 20. Still don't see an intentional foul.

Tableside official seemed to in La-La Land this entire sequence. Headed the wrong direction for the throw-in. Slow to come down into the C. Runs ahead of the fast break as if he was the new Lead.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by fullor30

In opening sequence when ball is inbounded opposite table, C is almost in back court??? Trail is deeper than he is? Looks like trail is motioning him to get to C. Notice play in question, you have two leads.

Personally, I didnt see anything to warrant an intentional foul. Hard to see on tape.

The C likely hung back in case the DL was threatened. I have no problem with the mechanic, although it wasn't needed as there was no pressure on the throw-in. I do think he should have migrated to the slot quicker.

[BLydic]

Thanks for posting, much to learn from this video. Mostly what "not" to do.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

The C likely hung back in case the DL was threatened. I have no problem with the mechanic, although it wasn't needed as there was no pressure on the throw-in. I do think he should have migrated to the slot quicker.

Have bears/packers on my mind, DL, defensive lineman?

I think he thought he was trail for whole vid. Trail inbounding gives him a motion to move down, and in transition, he's the new lead............

Edit: division line, nope dont buy it at all. Legimate trail is a few feet away. no need.

It also appears they are coming out of a timeout if thats the case, why is new lead going long?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jophyal

noone sees any problem with offensive player having elbows above shoulders and doing a 360 while flailing them? just askin...

I see a bigger problem with the officials not getting the first foul. In this situation, ask yourself why the player is swinging his elbows -- it's because he's getting fouled and the officials haven't stepped in and called it.

[jeffpea]

"what we have here is a failure to communicate..."

this whole end-of-game scenario could have turned out differently if the crew had communicated better in a lot of different areas...

- looks to me like 2 of the 3 officials were unsure as to which team would have the ball after the time out (the lead runs from the opposite end of the floor and Center is out of position before the ball is indounded).
- after the foul is called, the T never really communicates with his partners that he called an intentional foul. they don't seem to identify the shooter and are wandering around trying to figure out what happens next.
- the new trail never makes an attempt to talk to the white coach (or calm him down in any way) because he is not sure what the call is. therefore he doesn't know what to say to the coach...so he stays away - this adds to the coaches' anger/frustration.
- the only positive in this whole scenario is the Trail calling the T.
- NONE of the officials makes any attempt to engage the coach (whether to explain the intentional or calm him down after the T)...this adds to the coaches' anger/frustration.
- the officials NEVER get together to discuss how to administer the foul shots and will what happen next (intentional FT's first? - then T second? - where to indbounds the ball? - etc)
- after the 2nd T (same official who called intentional), the official never reports that T to the table.
- AGAIN the officials NEVER make any attempt to talk about the admin procedure.
- One of the officials did absolutely NOTHING...he didn't help on any of the calls, didn't talk w/ either of his partners, and didn't even make a move to get the coach moving towards the locker room...not sure what he was thinking!
- lastly, neither partner did anything to calm the official who ultimately called a forfeit down (he's the one who feels like he's getting dumped on after the intentional call, is getting screamed at after the second T, and gets so emotional that he just can't take it any more and ends the game).

Would the end result have been any different if the officials had communicated even a little bit?...maybe not, but they certainly did not help themselves and should have done better. imho, they did not handle this situation very well and should have communicated MUCH better.

[Mark Padgett]

I'm telling you guys. Keep a frying pan in your bag and don't be afraid to use it.

[Judtech]

Those elbows did appear to be WAAYY wide of the ball handlers body and he was swinging them, IMO, with "intent". I agree the first foul should have been called, but the elbows raised a red flag right away.