Handchecking

[Rich]

I had a coach that was a piece of work all night last night. First thing he tells me is that it's a point of emphasis to call hand-checking. He wouldn't know a hand-check it if bit him in the backside. Completely incidental contact -- mainly he was complaining because the other team was trapping and pressing and they couldn't beat it.

Then he starts a sentence with, "My theory is that it's a foul...." and I couldn't help it -- I was laughing as I walked away.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Then he starts a sentence with, "My theory is that it's a foul...." and I couldn't help it -- I was laughing as I walked away.

To your credit, you restrained yourself and didn't respond with "My theory is that you're full of sh!t".

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

To your credit, you restrained yourself and didn't respond with "My theory is that you're full of sh!t".

He gave a two handed wave to my back, I was told after the game. My partner was restrained himself -- he would've whacked him for it, but we were under two minutes and we both were trying to get done and get out by that point. I was fine with that.

Of course we called 5 fouls on this guy's team in the last 2 minutes -- down over 20 they decided to foul to stop the clock.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I had a coach that was a piece of work all night last night. First thing he tells me is that it's a point of emphasis to call hand-checking. He wouldn't know a hand-check it if bit him in the backside. Completely incidental contact -- mainly he was complaining because the other team was trapping and pressing and they couldn't beat it.

Then he starts a sentence with, "My theory is that it's a foul...." and I couldn't help it -- I was laughing as I walked away.

Anne Elk also had a theory.

[Scuba_ref]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Anne Elk also had a theory.

That single refernece is the best description I have seen yet about coaches and their knowledge of the rules. I laughed out loud when I read your comment.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Camp speak for advantage/disadvantage.

Just saying.....

Actually this is not camp speak at the NCAA level, that is the philosophy as to how to call it. And when people used advantage/disadvantage people would us other things to make this call (going north or south, could the player complete the play). It is a little more than something you hear at a camp.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually this is not camp speak at the NCAA level, that is the philosophy as to how to call it. And when people used advantage/disadvantage people would us other things to make this call (going north or south, could the player complete the play). It is a little more than something you hear at a camp.

Advantage/disadvantage has been the philosophy used in the NCAA for the last 50 years when it comes to hand checking. And they've used RBSQ for the last 50 years also in the NCAA to determine that advantage/disadvantage.

RSBQ can be summed up as "did the hand-check put an opponent at a disadvantage?"

Same old, same old. Nothing new at all but the terminology. But hey, if someone feels they've discovered the latest and greatest advance in officiating knowledge, who am I to spoil their party? Let 'em RSBQ away to their heart's content.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Advantage/disadvantage has been the philosophy used in the NCAA for the last 50 years when it comes to hand checking. And they've used RBSQ for the last 50 years also in the NCAA to determine that advantage/disadvantage.

RSBQ can be summed up as "did the hand-check put an opponent at a disadvantage?"

Same old, same old. Nothing new at all but the terminology. But hey, if someone feels they've discovered the latest and greatest advance in officiating knowledge, who am I to spoil their party? Let 'em RSBQ away to their heart's content.

I was going to say, "In the words of Potter Stewart, I know it when I see it." I didn't want his head to explode.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jurassic referee

camp speak for advantage/disadvantage.

Just saying.....

+1

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Advantage/disadvantage has been the philosophy used in the NCAA for the last 50 years when it comes to hand checking. And they've used RBSQ for the last 50 years also in the NCAA to determine that advantage/disadvantage.

RSBQ can be summed up as "did the hand-check put an opponent at a disadvantage?"

Same old, same old. Nothing new at all but the terminology. But hey, if someone feels they've discovered the latest and greatest advance in officiating knowledge, who am I to spoil their party? Let 'em RSBQ away to their heart's content.

My only point is people used many different criteria and I think it left with more inconsistency in the way it was being called. This in my opinion is a more precise way to define when it should be called. And hand-checking has only been defined in the rules the last 10 years or as to how this is to be called or a whether that action is clearly a foul. I could say that that advantage/disadvantage is a newer term for the Tower principle, not sure what any of that has to do with camps. Many of these things I have heard for years had nothing to do with camps.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Advantage/disadvantage has been the philosophy used in the NCAA for the last 50 years when it comes to hand checking. And they've used RBSQ for the last 50 years also in the NCAA to determine that advantage/disadvantage.

RSBQ can be summed up as "did the hand-check put an opponent at a disadvantage?"

Same old, same old. Nothing new at all but the terminology. But hey, if someone feels they've discovered the latest and greatest advance in officiating knowledge, who am I to spoil their party? Let 'em RSBQ away to their heart's content.

If it better describes the desired way in which the calls should be made, then it is not "Same old, same old". And in my opinion, it describes a much more clear set of criteria to determine if a foul has been committed than the very generic A/D. A/D is open to a much wider range of interpretation than RSBQ. RSBQ actually defines what constitutes A/D.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I had a coach that was a piece of work all night last night. First thing he tells me is that it's a point of emphasis to call hand-checking. He wouldn't know a hand-check it if bit him in the backside. Completely incidental contact -- mainly he was complaining because the other team was trapping and pressing and they couldn't beat it.

Then he starts a sentence with, "My theory is that it's a foul...." and I couldn't help it -- I was laughing as I walked away.

Wasn't this game last week and were you my partner? (I could have posted EXACTLY that same post). Only difference, is that he shut up after halftime (perhaps because the other team pulled off the press...but still crushed them)

[Judtech]

The 'camp speak' I am familiar with is "Hot Stove"
The defender gets 1 "Hot Stove" touch and then hands off.
Unfortunately, my wife has apparently found those camp notes and feels the same should apply at home!!! (Ty I'll be here all week and Reno and the 20th, be sure to tip your waiters and waitresses)
2 Hands is automatic whistle. I dont' like calling it 35' from the basket when a player is just standing there, but I don't write the rules, (Jur Ref would say I don't read them very much either!) I just enforce em!

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Judtech

The 'camp speak' I am familiar with is "Hot Stove"
The defender gets 1 "Hot Stove" touch and then hands off.
Unfortunately, my wife has apparently found those camp notes and feels the same should apply at home!!! (Ty I'll be here all week and Reno and the 20th, be sure to tip your waiters and waitresses)
2 Hands is automatic whistle. I dont' like calling it 35' from the basket when a player is just standing there, but I don't write the rules, (Jur Ref would say I don't read them very much either!) I just enforce em!

If you are going to be in Reno, you'll have a partner who overreads the rules, so you should be all set.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And hand-checking has only been defined in the rules the last 10 years or as to how this is to be called or a whether that action is clearly a foul. I could say that that advantage/disadvantage is a newer term for the Tower principle, not sure what any of that has to do with camps.

Jeff, hand-checking was addressed in the rules in the 1970's and they had case book plays then specifically telling us how to call it. At that time we were supposed to immediately call a foul if a defender put a hand on an opponent. It was strictly "hands off". That calling philosophy loosened up to using advantage/disadvantage if a hand went on. Two hands has always been a foul.

And the Tower Principle came out before that.

RSBQ is just paraphrasing the concepts used in the Tower Philosophy. It's just another way to state what officials have been actually using for umpty-ump years.

That's all I'm saying.