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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 10, 2000, 10:50am
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I know that different chapters in different areas tend to allow more or less hanchecking than other areas. How is the best way to control handchecking--zero tolerance takes away from the game--advantage-disadvantage is hard sometimes to determine. I tend to use alot of warnings the first few minutes of the game and then start tagging. Still, when you have 2 big boys rooting around offball near the paint, it's tough to call. You veteran official's opinions and expertise are very valuable to me in this area so please shed some light on this topic for me, thanks, Ralph.
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Old Fri Nov 10, 2000, 11:01am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ralph Stubenthal
I know that different chapters in different areas tend to allow more or less hanchecking than other areas. How is the best way to control handchecking--zero tolerance takes away from the game--advantage-disadvantage is hard sometimes to determine. I tend to use alot of warnings the first few minutes of the game and then start tagging. Still, when you have 2 big boys rooting around offball near the paint, it's tough to call. You veteran official's opinions and expertise are very valuable to me in this area so please shed some light on this topic for me, thanks, Ralph.
Ralph,
Rightly, or wrongly, I generally reserve the Hand-checking violation for an "On-ball Defender" against an opponent who, with the ball, is attempting to make a move, or drive, in the direction of the basket. Otherwise, I will be going to illegal hands, pushing, holding.
With active players in the post, ...if I wonder, if there is an A/D, then I say to myself there is no A/D. In other words, if I am not sure, I call nothing. If I am sure, no problem..."Tweet".
mick
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 10, 2000, 11:10am
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I will try to give a warning or two when I think the contact is coming too close, but if they jump over the line right off the bat then I I'll make the call. It still boils down to "they should know better".
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Old Fri Nov 10, 2000, 11:19am
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Lightbulb Verbal warnings ... not for me.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Watson
I will try to give a warning or two when I think the contact is coming too close, but if they jump over the line right off the bat then I I'll make the call. It still boils down to "they should know better".
Brian,
I have had too many coaches say, "Just CALL IT!"
So, although I still warn occasionally, I am more inclined to say to myself, "'Tis or 'Tain't" without giving the players an option. This I, too, put under your statement of "they should know better".
mick
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 10, 2000, 11:58am
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I recently worked my first D3 game. One of the things mentioned was hand-checking. The 2 other guys I was working with are calling D1. They said the NCAA is really pushing handchecking and post-play. This year they are giving the defender one-touch to size-up or measure-up the offense. (This is in a non-dribbling situation.) Once the offense has begin to dribble, any hand that is on the dribbler for more than two dribbles should be called. On post-play: the defense may use a forearm on the offense, but they must have palm down or closed fist. Two of anything ( arm and leg or knee, two hands) must be called. I hope I explained myself clearly, if not I'll try again.
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Old Fri Nov 10, 2000, 01:01pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by vhslref
I recently worked my first D3 game. One of the things mentioned was hand-checking. The 2 other guys I was working with are calling D1. They said the NCAA is really pushing handchecking and post-play. This year they are giving the defender one-touch to size-up or measure-up the offense. (This is in a non-dribbling situation.) Once the offense has begin to dribble, any hand that is on the dribbler for more than two dribbles should be called. On post-play: the defense may use a forearm on the offense, but they must have palm down or closed fist. Two of anything ( arm and leg or knee, two hands) must be called. I hope I explained myself clearly, if not I'll try again.
vhslref,
Yeah, I didn't go to a CCA camp, but I was told they wanted to "take the weight room out of the game."
mick
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2000, 04:20am
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touching

Now most people think that touching is a handcheck. So it depends on what you consider handchecking. I always call handchecking, but some people call touching.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2000, 03:35pm
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Smile

When hand checking arrived with it's very own signal we were advised to call it right away if a player was dribbling "north or south" (towards the basket) when the play was going "east or west" (across court) take a good hard look and tell'em "hands off".

We found that letting the players know what you are looking at has forced the players to conform more quickly then calling loads of fouls. When i had to call the hand check I would respond to any question by saying i told him/her to keep the hands off! We would also address this situation when we would give a high school rule's clinic.

I agree with what was said in another thread, that the NCAA is getting back to the "Finesse rather then the Physical Game" with this year's "Points of Emphasis".

Good Luck All
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 12, 2000, 12:07pm
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Smile

IMHO, there should be no warning given before calling a handcheck. Do we warn before calling a block? Foul is a foul. Get it early, they will adjust...
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 12, 2000, 12:34pm
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Thumbs up warnings

But there is a difference. A defender can touch a dribbler and not have fouled yet. If you warn you can get them aware that they have potential for a foul. It is no different than post play. Stop it by voice if you can, but if you cannot, use the whistle.

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDave
IMHO, there should be no warning given before calling a handcheck. Do we warn before calling a block? Foul is a foul. Get it early, they will adjust...
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 12, 2000, 02:15pm
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Wink

BigDave,

A D-1 supervisor told me years ago "if you arn't talking the players out of at least 10 fouls a game you are not doing your Job"

I also express to my partner in our pregame that we will try to avoid calling a foul in the first couple of minute's of play, (of cource we will call all elephants) this will give the teams a chance to get into a flow! We will try talking them out of fouls if we can and start calling them if we can't.

I believe that we should do as much preventive officating as possible. This again is officating the "gray" area and that is what i believe we are judged most by, the "gray" area.

Good Luck
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Old Sun Nov 12, 2000, 09:47pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alaska Ref
BigDave,

A D-1 supervisor told me years ago "if you arn't talking the players out of at least 10 fouls a game you are not doing your Job"

I also express to my partner in our pregame that we will try to avoid calling a foul in the first couple of minute's of play, (of cource we will call all elephants) this will give the teams a chance to get into a flow! We will try talking them out of fouls if we can and start calling them if we can't.

I believe that we should do as much preventive officating as possible. This again is officating the "gray" area and that is what i believe we are judged most by, the "gray" area.

Good Luck

Don,
I prefer to make the call in the first 2 minutes
rather than warning. I think it sets a much better tone
for making the tough calls later on in the game,
particularly with rough play and hand check type things.

-Dan


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Old Sun Nov 12, 2000, 10:43pm
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IMHO, calling fouls early keeps the game from getting out-of-hand later. I, too, try to talk players out of fouls but experience has shown me that calling fouls early leads to cleaner play later. Again IMHO it is better to be too strict early and then loosen up later than to try to tighten things up when the game has gone progressed to the crapper. While I am by no means a veteren official, the games where I have called fouls earlier seem to go much better.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 12, 2000, 11:03pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Alaska Ref
BigDave,

A D-1 supervisor told me years ago "if you arn't talking the players out of at least 10 fouls a game you are not doing your Job"

I also express to my partner in our pregame that we will try to avoid calling a foul in the first couple of minute's of play, (of cource we will call all elephants) this will give the teams a chance to get into a flow! We will try talking them out of fouls if we can and start calling them if we can't.

I believe that we should do as much preventive officating as possible. This again is officating the "gray" area and that is what i believe we are judged most by, the "gray" area.

Good Luck

Don,
I prefer to make the call in the first 2 minutes
rather than warning. I think it sets a much better tone
for making the tough calls later on in the game,
particularly with rough play and hand check type things.

-Dan



What do you do after the first 2 minutes? I agree about calling fouls, but after that why change. Once you call something you have to continue to call it that way or you are in trouble. Make the first fouls real fouls and watch out for calling things that are boarderline. I really do not like the terminology tight and loose. It is a foul because of advantange/disadvantage or it is nothing.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 12, 2000, 11:29pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Don,
I prefer to make the call in the first 2 minutes
rather than warning. I think it sets a much better tone
for making the tough calls later on in the game,
particularly with rough play and hand check type things.

-Dan

What do you do after the first 2 minutes? I agree about calling fouls, but after that why change. Once you call something you have to continue to call it that way or you are in trouble. Make the first fouls real fouls and watch out for calling things that are boarderline. I really do not like the terminology tight and loose. It is a foul because of advantange/disadvantage or it is nothing. [/B]
Dan didn't say he stopped calling it after two minutes. He said he preferred to make the call in the first two minutes rather than warning the team. If he calls it in the first two minutes, then that's telling the kids he's going to call it like that all night.
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