Handchecking

[SmokeEater]

I use the same philosophy as Billy on this and would add when the ball handler has had Rhythm, Speed, Balance or Quickness visibly affected by the handcheck.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

I use the same philosophy as Billy on this and would add when the ball handler has had Rhythm, Speed, Balance or Quickness visibly affected by the handcheck.

Camp speak for advantage/disadvantage.

Just saying.....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Camp speak for advantage/disadvantage.

Just saying.....

Actually this is not camp speak at the NCAA level, that is the philosophy as to how to call it. And when people used advantage/disadvantage people would us other things to make this call (going north or south, could the player complete the play). It is a little more than something you hear at a camp.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually this is not camp speak at the NCAA level, that is the philosophy as to how to call it. And when people used advantage/disadvantage people would us other things to make this call (going north or south, could the player complete the play). It is a little more than something you hear at a camp.

Advantage/disadvantage has been the philosophy used in the NCAA for the last 50 years when it comes to hand checking. And they've used RBSQ for the last 50 years also in the NCAA to determine that advantage/disadvantage.

RSBQ can be summed up as "did the hand-check put an opponent at a disadvantage?"

Same old, same old. Nothing new at all but the terminology. But hey, if someone feels they've discovered the latest and greatest advance in officiating knowledge, who am I to spoil their party? Let 'em RSBQ away to their heart's content.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Advantage/disadvantage has been the philosophy used in the NCAA for the last 50 years when it comes to hand checking. And they've used RBSQ for the last 50 years also in the NCAA to determine that advantage/disadvantage.

RSBQ can be summed up as "did the hand-check put an opponent at a disadvantage?"

Same old, same old. Nothing new at all but the terminology. But hey, if someone feels they've discovered the latest and greatest advance in officiating knowledge, who am I to spoil their party? Let 'em RSBQ away to their heart's content.

I was going to say, "In the words of Potter Stewart, I know it when I see it." I didn't want his head to explode.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Advantage/disadvantage has been the philosophy used in the NCAA for the last 50 years when it comes to hand checking. And they've used RBSQ for the last 50 years also in the NCAA to determine that advantage/disadvantage.

RSBQ can be summed up as "did the hand-check put an opponent at a disadvantage?"

Same old, same old. Nothing new at all but the terminology. But hey, if someone feels they've discovered the latest and greatest advance in officiating knowledge, who am I to spoil their party? Let 'em RSBQ away to their heart's content.

My only point is people used many different criteria and I think it left with more inconsistency in the way it was being called. This in my opinion is a more precise way to define when it should be called. And hand-checking has only been defined in the rules the last 10 years or as to how this is to be called or a whether that action is clearly a foul. I could say that that advantage/disadvantage is a newer term for the Tower principle, not sure what any of that has to do with camps. Many of these things I have heard for years had nothing to do with camps.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And hand-checking has only been defined in the rules the last 10 years or as to how this is to be called or a whether that action is clearly a foul. I could say that that advantage/disadvantage is a newer term for the Tower principle, not sure what any of that has to do with camps.

Jeff, hand-checking was addressed in the rules in the 1970's and they had case book plays then specifically telling us how to call it. At that time we were supposed to immediately call a foul if a defender put a hand on an opponent. It was strictly "hands off". That calling philosophy loosened up to using advantage/disadvantage if a hand went on. Two hands has always been a foul.

And the Tower Principle came out before that.

RSBQ is just paraphrasing the concepts used in the Tower Philosophy. It's just another way to state what officials have been actually using for umpty-ump years.

That's all I'm saying.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Advantage/disadvantage has been the philosophy used in the NCAA for the last 50 years when it comes to hand checking. And they've used RBSQ for the last 50 years also in the NCAA to determine that advantage/disadvantage.

RSBQ can be summed up as "did the hand-check put an opponent at a disadvantage?"

Same old, same old. Nothing new at all but the terminology. But hey, if someone feels they've discovered the latest and greatest advance in officiating knowledge, who am I to spoil their party? Let 'em RSBQ away to their heart's content.

If it better describes the desired way in which the calls should be made, then it is not "Same old, same old". And in my opinion, it describes a much more clear set of criteria to determine if a foul has been committed than the very generic A/D. A/D is open to a much wider range of interpretation than RSBQ. RSBQ actually defines what constitutes A/D.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If it better describes the desired way in which the calls should be made, then it is not "Same old, same old". And in my opinion, it describes a much more clear set of criteria to determine if a foul has been committed than the very generic A/D. A/D is open to a much wider range of interpretation than RSBQ. RSBQ actually defines what constitutes A/D.

Trainers have been using the exact same criteria as RSBQ for umpteen years while trying to explain advantage/disadvantage.I was one of them.

Same concept, different words.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jurassic referee

camp speak for advantage/disadvantage.

Just saying.....

+1