Handchecking

[stiffler3492]

I knew it was a POE, but it also says that any time a defender places his hand(s) on the offensive player it is a foul.

Obviously, we don't always operate that way.

I had this last night. First possession of the game, A1 has the ball near the division line. He starts to dribble toward the three point line. B1 maybe handchecked, maybe he didn't. I was straightlined from that. A1 coach asks right away..."Are you gonna call handchecking tonight??"

How do you explain the A/D concept to a coach?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

I knew it was a POE, but it also says that any time a defender places his hand(s) on the offensive player it is a foul.

Obviously, we don't always operate that way.

I had this last night. First possession of the game, A1 has the ball near the division line. He starts to dribble toward the three point line. B1 maybe handchecked, maybe he didn't. I was straightlined from that. A1 coach asks right away..."Are you gonna call handchecking tonight??"

How do you explain the A/D concept to a coach?

You don't give them a clinic. I'd ignore that. The coach doesn't get an answer just because he's playing jeapordy.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

How do you explain the A/D concept to a coach?

You can't because their A/D is considerably different than yours.

I am not a fan of the A/D concept. I wish there was another way to refer to that concept because it definitley applies to the game. Especially at higher levels with better athletes. But, when you put words around it, it almost always seems to be interpreted incorrectly.

The A/D concept is used frequently to excuse a no-call that should have been called. It lulls us into not using our whistle when needed. It is not an easy thing to understand or apply. To me, it is a thing that even when (partially for me) understood is still hard to put into words.

I only felt good about applying A/D in a game when I quit trying to apply A/D to calls and made calls according to my understanding of the rules. The A/D followed.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

You can't because their A/D is considerably different than yours.

I am not a fan of the A/D concept. I wish there was another way to refer to that concept because it definitley applies to the game. Especially at higher levels with better athletes. But, when you put words around it, it almost always seems to be interpreted incorrectly.

The A/D concept is used frequently to excuse a no-call that should have been called. It lulls us into not using our whistle when needed. It is not an easy thing to understand or apply. To me, it is a thing that even when (partially for me) understood is still hard to put into words.

I only felt good about applying A/D in a game when I quit trying to apply A/D to calls and made calls according to my understanding of the rules. The A/D followed.

A/D is in the rules. It's just shorthand for 4-27-3. "Contact which does not hinder the opponent from participating in normal defensive or offensive movements should be considered incidental."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

A/D is in the rules. It's just shorthand for 4-27-3. "Contact which does not hinder the opponent from participating in normal defensive or offensive movements should be considered incidental."

Furthermore:

Therefore, it is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may
be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player or a team should not be
permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. Neither should play be
permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage not
intended by a rule.

[BillyMac]

Places both hands on a ball-handler, it is a foul.
Continuously places a hand on the ball-handler, it is a foul.
Continuously jabs a hand or forearm on a ball-handler, it is a foul.

[SmokeEater]

I use the same philosophy as Billy on this and would add when the ball handler has had Rhythm, Speed, Balance or Quickness visibly affected by the handcheck.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

I use the same philosophy as Billy on this and would add when the ball handler has had Rhythm, Speed, Balance or Quickness visibly affected by the handcheck.

Camp speak for advantage/disadvantage.

Just saying.....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Places both hands on a ball-handler, it is a foul.
Continuously places a hand on the ball-handler, it is a foul.
Continuously jabs a hand or forearm on a ball-handler, it is a foul.

And one hand on and then off is a judgment call as to advantage/disadvantage.

And so it is written...and so it shall be...under both NCAA and NFHS rules.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

How do you explain the A/D concept to a coach?

that was incidental contact, coach. No advantage gained.

And if he doesn't accept that and continues to question you, deal with it.

[Rich]

I had a coach that was a piece of work all night last night. First thing he tells me is that it's a point of emphasis to call hand-checking. He wouldn't know a hand-check it if bit him in the backside. Completely incidental contact -- mainly he was complaining because the other team was trapping and pressing and they couldn't beat it.

Then he starts a sentence with, "My theory is that it's a foul...." and I couldn't help it -- I was laughing as I walked away.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Then he starts a sentence with, "My theory is that it's a foul...." and I couldn't help it -- I was laughing as I walked away.

To your credit, you restrained yourself and didn't respond with "My theory is that you're full of sh!t".

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

To your credit, you restrained yourself and didn't respond with "My theory is that you're full of sh!t".

He gave a two handed wave to my back, I was told after the game. My partner was restrained himself -- he would've whacked him for it, but we were under two minutes and we both were trying to get done and get out by that point. I was fine with that.

Of course we called 5 fouls on this guy's team in the last 2 minutes -- down over 20 they decided to foul to stop the clock.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I had a coach that was a piece of work all night last night. First thing he tells me is that it's a point of emphasis to call hand-checking. He wouldn't know a hand-check it if bit him in the backside. Completely incidental contact -- mainly he was complaining because the other team was trapping and pressing and they couldn't beat it.

Then he starts a sentence with, "My theory is that it's a foul...." and I couldn't help it -- I was laughing as I walked away.

Anne Elk also had a theory.

[Scuba_ref]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Anne Elk also had a theory.

That single refernece is the best description I have seen yet about coaches and their knowledge of the rules. I laughed out loud when I read your comment.