two man chop?

bob jenkins · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 31, 2010, 09:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30

Wouldn't the reasoning for the mirrored chop in three man also apply to two man?

It would seem that it would, but the FED didn't do it that way. Nor did IL

fullor30 · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 31, 2010, 09:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It would seem that it would, but the FED didn't do it that way. Nor did IL

Makes no sense.............I'll continue to chop as I have one or two small school two man games and want to be consistent.

Welpe · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 31, 2010, 11:08am

In my area we've been instructed to mirror the chop when at trail in 2 whistle.

Indianaref · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 31, 2010, 11:21am

I always thought that the reason FED didn't want the T to chop in two person was that the trail official has a different coverage area and if he/she had their attention on the ball, they would miss the off ball illegal stuff.

Multiple Sports · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 01, 2011, 05:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indianaref

I always thought that the reason FED didn't want the T to chop in two person was that the trail official has a different coverage area and if he/she had their attention on the ball, they would miss the off ball illegal stuff.

Stop thinkin like that you are sounding like a well informed official.........

Jurassic Ref or Billy Mac won't be able to scold you if you sound reasonable !!!!!!

bob jenkins · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 01, 2011, 09:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indianaref

I always thought that the reason FED didn't want the T to chop in two person was that the trail official has a different coverage area and if he/she had their attention on the ball, they would miss the off ball illegal stuff.

The same is true in 3-person.

CMHCoachNRef · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 01, 2011, 09:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The same is true in 3-person.

Except that in 2-person if BOTH officials are watching the ball, there is NO ONE left to watch off ball. At least in 3-person, we still have ONE person focused completely off-ball.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the trail chopping (in either case) for sight line purposes. However, I think if NFHS wants the trail to be watching to chop, I think that the trail should have 100% of the responsibility for starting the clock. In the event that the pass is tipped by the inbound-defender, the lead could give the infamous "foul tip signal" to indicate to the trail that the clock should be started. I think this current mechanic (especially if done in 2-person) causes too many eyes to be on the ball and not enough (in the case of 2-person -- NONE) eyes off of the ball.

Just my humble opinion.....

Rich · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 01, 2011, 10:08am

I wish people would stop saying "watching the ball." I can mirror a chop WITHOUT WATCHING THE BALL. I can sense when it's touched on the court without looking in that direction at all. I don't sit and put laser-like focus on the ball when I'm the T, 3-person. Hell, I don't put laser-like focus on the ball when I'm *administering* the throw-in -- I'm actually looking for illegal activity in my entire primary area, including violations by the thrower.

If you can't watch your primary and chop at the same time (using sense and peripheral vision) don't try something advanced, like chewing gum and walking at the same time.

Rich · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 01, 2011, 10:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Except that in 2-person if BOTH officials are watching the ball, there is NO ONE left to watch off ball. At least in 3-person, we still have ONE person focused completely off-ball.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the trail chopping (in either case) for sight line purposes. However, I think if NFHS wants the trail to be watching to chop, I think that the trail should have 100% of the responsibility for starting the clock. In the event that the pass is tipped by the inbound-defender, the lead could give the infamous "foul tip signal" to indicate to the trail that the clock should be started. I think this current mechanic (especially if done in 2-person) causes too many eyes to be on the ball and not enough (in the case of 2-person -- NONE) eyes off of the ball.

Just my humble opinion.....

Personally, I think you can (and probably do) chop without staring at the basketball.

JRutledge · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 01, 2011, 04:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30

Makes no sense.............I'll continue to chop as I have one or two small school two man games and want to be consistent.

Here is why I think it is different. In three person the trail has a lot of coverage area on the same side of the Lead. You will be looking on the same side of the court and the ball will be passed to your side. In two person you are on the other side of the court and if you are watching the ball you will miss a lot in your area. The C can cover a lot of off-ball screening and movement. I guess you can do that, but if you miss a screen or something I would wonder why you were doing that. After all there is a reason that hardly anyone uses 2 Person at the varsity level. Not sure why tournaments are being so cheap to only use two. Glad that is not the case in the games I work in the same area and I would refuse but I digress.

Peace

fullor30 · #11 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 02, 2011, 09:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is why I think it is different. In three person the trail has a lot of coverage area on the same side of the Lead. You will be looking on the same side of the court and the ball will be passed to your side. In two person you are on the other side of the court and if you are watching the ball you will miss a lot in your area. The C can cover a lot of off-ball screening and movement. I guess you can do that, but if you miss a screen or something I would wonder why you were doing that. After all there is a reason that hardly anyone uses 2 Person at the varsity level. Not sure why tournaments are being so cheap to only use two. Glad that is not the case in the games I work in the same area and I would refuse but I digress.
Peace

Well, someone has to do them and I'm more than willing to pick up your discards

JRutledge · #12 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 02, 2011, 11:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30

Well, someone has to do them and I'm more than willing to pick up your discards

Don't worry, I do not turn them down I do not even consider working them at that level.

Peace

fullor30 · #13 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 02, 2011, 12:26pm

[QUOTE=JRutledge;711523]Don't worry, I do not turn them down I do not even consider working them at that level.

Peace[/QUOTE

Somebody has to do them!

Mike Rowe
America's dirtiest jobs

JRutledge · #14 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 02, 2011, 01:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30

Somebody has to do them!

Mike Rowe
America's dirtiest jobs

Sports is not a necessity to life and yes someone can do them but many of the people that have a choice will not (I am by far the only one that chooses not to work them). There are reasons people go to college to have options in their career. I am glad I have options and do not have to do them at the varsity level.

Peace

BillyMac · #15 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 02, 2011, 12:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30

Someone has to do them and I'm more than willing to pick up your discards.

Didn't NHL player Sean Avery make a similar comment a few years ago?

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