two man chop?

[fullor30]

Rarely do any two man varsity in my area, but had a few two man tournament games over holidays. Does trail chop clock only in three man? I was surprised to hear from a partner in a two man game that I didn't need to chop.

Is he correct??? Doesn't make sense to me. I must confess my two man mechanics are weak.

[MelbRef]

That is correct.
You do not mirror the chop in 2 man.

[Bad Zebra]

The trail mirror chop mechanic (front court, three man only) was instituted a year or two ago. Someone should be along soon with a page reference in the Officials Manual. I think I saw a reference in an earlier thread.

I believe the reasoning was to make it more visible to the timekeeper for starting the clock.

Personally, I'm not sure it's really necessary but I try to comply. A lot of veterans I know tend to ignore it.

[Terrapins Fan]

The timers rarely watch us, they watch the ball. I hate the mechanic.

[26 Year Gap]

Our timer today rarely listened. We must've put time on the clock at least 5 times today. I do like the mechanic. It would be tougher with two, but it could occur. I wouldn't mind it. Especially, if they coupled it with coaches only requesting TO during a dead ball.

[grunewar]

My records show it as a Mechanics Change for the 2009-2010 season and for the reasons as discussed - to help the timer with "sightlines" especially when the ball is in the corner.

I must confess, as the T, I always chopt it now - regardless if it's two or three person.

[fullor30]

Wouldn't the reasoning for the mirrored chop in three man also apply to two man? Are sight lines different in two man? I think we still have ten players on court regardless of number of officials.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Wouldn't the reasoning for the mirrored chop in three man also apply to two man?

It would seem that it would, but the FED didn't do it that way. Nor did IL

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It would seem that it would, but the FED didn't do it that way. Nor did IL

Makes no sense.............I'll continue to chop as I have one or two small school two man games and want to be consistent.

[Welpe]

In my area we've been instructed to mirror the chop when at trail in 2 whistle.

[Indianaref]

I always thought that the reason FED didn't want the T to chop in two person was that the trail official has a different coverage area and if he/she had their attention on the ball, they would miss the off ball illegal stuff.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Makes no sense.............I'll continue to chop as I have one or two small school two man games and want to be consistent.

Here is why I think it is different. In three person the trail has a lot of coverage area on the same side of the Lead. You will be looking on the same side of the court and the ball will be passed to your side. In two person you are on the other side of the court and if you are watching the ball you will miss a lot in your area. The C can cover a lot of off-ball screening and movement. I guess you can do that, but if you miss a screen or something I would wonder why you were doing that. After all there is a reason that hardly anyone uses 2 Person at the varsity level. Not sure why tournaments are being so cheap to only use two. Glad that is not the case in the games I work in the same area and I would refuse but I digress.

Peace

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is why I think it is different. In three person the trail has a lot of coverage area on the same side of the Lead. You will be looking on the same side of the court and the ball will be passed to your side. In two person you are on the other side of the court and if you are watching the ball you will miss a lot in your area. The C can cover a lot of off-ball screening and movement. I guess you can do that, but if you miss a screen or something I would wonder why you were doing that. After all there is a reason that hardly anyone uses 2 Person at the varsity level. Not sure why tournaments are being so cheap to only use two. Glad that is not the case in the games I work in the same area and I would refuse but I digress.
Peace

Well, someone has to do them and I'm more than willing to pick up your discards

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is why I think it is different. In three person the trail has a lot of coverage area on the same side of the Lead. You will be looking on the same side of the court and the ball will be passed to your side. In two person you are on the other side of the court and if you are watching the ball you will miss a lot in your area. The C can cover a lot of off-ball screening and movement. I guess you can do that, but if you miss a screen or something I would wonder why you were doing that. After all there is a reason that hardly anyone uses 2 Person at the varsity level. Not sure why tournaments are being so cheap to only use two. Glad that is not the case in the games I work in the same area and I would refuse but I digress.

Peace

You are writing this as if I am not doing anything other than mirroring a chop.

I guess I just don't understand why posters in this thread are being so dense. Let me summarize:

(1) My mirroring a chop in 2-person or 3-person *does not* take my attention off of anything else. I *am not* watching the ball. I AM NOT WATCHING THE BALL.

(2) I can either sense the touch on the court and chop or mirror a partner's chop without staring at that activity. I mean, I administer throw-ins all the time without staring directly at the basketball.

(3) I am going to get (or miss) that same illegal screen whether I'm mirroring a chop or not.

As far as not taking any 2-person games, I'll take any varsity game and work it however they want me to work it. If 2-person is good enough for those who are signing the checks and playing the game, it's good enough for me. We used to offer to bring a third and split 2 checks, but instead of convincing schools that it was worth it to pay for a third, I instead had ADs ask me if we would bring a third for free. Nope, sorry.