two man chop?

[fullor30]

Wouldn't the reasoning for the mirrored chop in three man also apply to two man? Are sight lines different in two man? I think we still have ten players on court regardless of number of officials.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Wouldn't the reasoning for the mirrored chop in three man also apply to two man?

It would seem that it would, but the FED didn't do it that way. Nor did IL

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It would seem that it would, but the FED didn't do it that way. Nor did IL

Makes no sense.............I'll continue to chop as I have one or two small school two man games and want to be consistent.

[Welpe]

In my area we've been instructed to mirror the chop when at trail in 2 whistle.

[Indianaref]

I always thought that the reason FED didn't want the T to chop in two person was that the trail official has a different coverage area and if he/she had their attention on the ball, they would miss the off ball illegal stuff.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

I always thought that the reason FED didn't want the T to chop in two person was that the trail official has a different coverage area and if he/she had their attention on the ball, they would miss the off ball illegal stuff.

Stop thinkin like that you are sounding like a well informed official.........

Jurassic Ref or Billy Mac won't be able to scold you if you sound reasonable !!!!!!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

I always thought that the reason FED didn't want the T to chop in two person was that the trail official has a different coverage area and if he/she had their attention on the ball, they would miss the off ball illegal stuff.

The same is true in 3-person.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The same is true in 3-person.

Except that in 2-person if BOTH officials are watching the ball, there is NO ONE left to watch off ball. At least in 3-person, we still have ONE person focused completely off-ball.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the trail chopping (in either case) for sight line purposes. However, I think if NFHS wants the trail to be watching to chop, I think that the trail should have 100% of the responsibility for starting the clock. In the event that the pass is tipped by the inbound-defender, the lead could give the infamous "foul tip signal" to indicate to the trail that the clock should be started. I think this current mechanic (especially if done in 2-person) causes too many eyes to be on the ball and not enough (in the case of 2-person -- NONE) eyes off of the ball.

Just my humble opinion.....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Makes no sense.............I'll continue to chop as I have one or two small school two man games and want to be consistent.

Here is why I think it is different. In three person the trail has a lot of coverage area on the same side of the Lead. You will be looking on the same side of the court and the ball will be passed to your side. In two person you are on the other side of the court and if you are watching the ball you will miss a lot in your area. The C can cover a lot of off-ball screening and movement. I guess you can do that, but if you miss a screen or something I would wonder why you were doing that. After all there is a reason that hardly anyone uses 2 Person at the varsity level. Not sure why tournaments are being so cheap to only use two. Glad that is not the case in the games I work in the same area and I would refuse but I digress.

Peace

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is why I think it is different. In three person the trail has a lot of coverage area on the same side of the Lead. You will be looking on the same side of the court and the ball will be passed to your side. In two person you are on the other side of the court and if you are watching the ball you will miss a lot in your area. The C can cover a lot of off-ball screening and movement. I guess you can do that, but if you miss a screen or something I would wonder why you were doing that. After all there is a reason that hardly anyone uses 2 Person at the varsity level. Not sure why tournaments are being so cheap to only use two. Glad that is not the case in the games I work in the same area and I would refuse but I digress.
Peace

Well, someone has to do them and I'm more than willing to pick up your discards

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Well, someone has to do them and I'm more than willing to pick up your discards

Don't worry, I do not turn them down I do not even consider working them at that level.

Peace

[fullor30]

[QUOTE=JRutledge;711523]Don't worry, I do not turn them down I do not even consider working them at that level.

Peace[/QUOTE

Somebody has to do them!

Mike Rowe
America's dirtiest jobs

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Someone has to do them and I'm more than willing to pick up your discards.

Didn't NHL player Sean Avery make a similar comment a few years ago?

[BillyMac]

Splitting two checks three ways? I can't speak for the other local boards here in the Constitution State, but in my little corner of Connecticut we wouldn't have enough varsity officials to cover all busy night (Tuesday, Friday) games.

We're already having some trouble covering all these games with crews of two. Illnesses, injuries, and changing snow dates often present a major challenge to our assigning commissioner. Last season, after a major snowstorm, he actually sent us an email asking us to unblock a few dates, if possible, on our Arbiter schedule. We've asked leagues, and conferences, to move some of their games to other nights. We've also asked leagues, and conferences, to split their games by gender (one gender on Monday and Thursday, the other gender on Tuesday and Friday). Nobody wants to change. Especially that Friday night one gender at home, the other gender on the road, mentality.

And if we were to promote qualified subvarsity officials to varsity, that would leave us with a severe shortage of subvarsity officials to cover afternoon, and early evening, middle school, freshman, and junior varsity games.

I know that many of you non-Connecticuters work boy/girl varsity doubleheaders. For some reason, working two varsity games in one day is frowned upon here in Connecticut. The most common doubleheaders we see here are the middle school/junior varsity, or the freshman/junior varsity, doubleheaders, and those are few, and far between, only assigned when absolutely necessary, usually due to a shortage of officials available in the late afternoon, as well as a shortage of subvarsity officials in general, especially on those busy Friday afternoons, and evenings.

Recruiting basketball officials has become a major challenge here. $88.28 for varsity, and $57.25 for subvarsity, doesn't seem to cut it in a state where the median household income is around $54,000. Connecticut unemployment hovering around 9% hasn't seemed to help.

We will always be the "Land of Steady Habits". Unfortunately, it also appears that we may always, at least in the foreseeable future, be the "Land of the Two Person Game".

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is why I think it is different. In three person the trail has a lot of coverage area on the same side of the Lead. You will be looking on the same side of the court and the ball will be passed to your side. In two person you are on the other side of the court and if you are watching the ball you will miss a lot in your area. The C can cover a lot of off-ball screening and movement. I guess you can do that, but if you miss a screen or something I would wonder why you were doing that. After all there is a reason that hardly anyone uses 2 Person at the varsity level. Not sure why tournaments are being so cheap to only use two. Glad that is not the case in the games I work in the same area and I would refuse but I digress.

Peace

You are writing this as if I am not doing anything other than mirroring a chop.

I guess I just don't understand why posters in this thread are being so dense. Let me summarize:

(1) My mirroring a chop in 2-person or 3-person *does not* take my attention off of anything else. I *am not* watching the ball. I AM NOT WATCHING THE BALL.

(2) I can either sense the touch on the court and chop or mirror a partner's chop without staring at that activity. I mean, I administer throw-ins all the time without staring directly at the basketball.

(3) I am going to get (or miss) that same illegal screen whether I'm mirroring a chop or not.

As far as not taking any 2-person games, I'll take any varsity game and work it however they want me to work it. If 2-person is good enough for those who are signing the checks and playing the game, it's good enough for me. We used to offer to bring a third and split 2 checks, but instead of convincing schools that it was worth it to pay for a third, I instead had ADs ask me if we would bring a third for free. Nope, sorry.