Messy situation

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by rwest

nothing you have quoted here is applicable. This is not a throw-in. Those cases don't apply. You can't take one rule that covers one scenario and then use it in a different scenario. We have rule 2.3 cover scenarios such as this. and if you can't wipe out the t you can't restore the coaching box.

do you have a rule that specifically covers this exact scenario?

+1

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by rwest

No you are agreeing with me. You agree this is not a correctable error therefore rule 2.10 doesn't apply. Yet you have failed to show me the rule that says categorically that a T can't be wiped out. Since this situation doesn't fit the description of rule 2.10 we can't use it but there are other rules other than 2.10. This scenario is not covered by any rule, therefore, 2.3 is applicable.

What would happen if you called the T and where lining up to shoot the free throws but before the first three throw is taken the table buzzes you over? They found the original roster handed in by the coach. It had the player on the roster and the scorer just failed to copy it down.

What are you going to do?

So, by your reading of 2-10, I can in the 4th quarter go back and assess a non-shooting foul from the 1st quarter that I just now realized I missed because you know 2-10 doesn't cover that situation so it can be corrected any time? No, 2-10 lists the only instances we can correct were an official has made an error by setting aside a rule. If it isn't there it can't be fixed.

If we have not restarted the game by making the ball live, we have not yet committed an error.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

So, by your reading of 2-10, I can in the 4th quarter go back and assess a non-shooting foul from the 1st quarter that I just now realized I missed because you know 2-10 doesn't cover that situation so it can be corrected any time? No, 2-10 lists the only instances we can correct were an official has made an error by setting aside a rule. If it isn't there it can't be fixed.

If we have not restarted the game by making the ball live, we have not yet committed an error.

All I am asking is for you to show me the rule that says you can't wipe out the T. You haven't yet! This is not covered by rule 2.10. There are other things we correct that is not listed under 2-10. You call a foul on number 13. You report it. We line up to shoot two free throws. The two free throws have been shot and the ball is out of bounds. The table buzzes you over. There is no 13 on the floor. There is a 31. You realized you called it on the wrong player. This is not a correctable error. So you can't change it by your reading of 2.10. No where in the rule book does it say we can now change the foul to number 31, but we do because it is the right thing to do.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by rwest

All I am asking is for you to show me the rule that says you can't wipe out the T. You haven't yet! This is not covered by rule 2.10. There are other things we correct that is not listed under 2-10. You call a foul on number 13. You report it. We line up to shoot two free throws. The two free throws have been shot and the ball is out of bounds. The table buzzes you over. There is no 13 on the floor. There is a 31. You realized you called it on the wrong player. This is not a correctable error. So you can't change it by your reading of 2.10. No where in the rule book does it say we can now change the foul to number 31, but we do because it is the right thing to do.

I have. 2-10 covers correctable errors. I'm getting tired of hearing the squishy sound as I beat my head on this particular brick wall so I'll let you continue to pretend that you can correct anything you want when ever you want so long as it's not listed in 2-10.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I have. 2-10 covers correctable errors. I'm getting tired of hearing the squishy sound as I beat my head on this particular brick wall so I'll let you continue to pretend that you can correct anything you want when ever you want so long as it's not listed in 2-10.

We are having a friendly debate and then you resort to this! WOW!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

What says we can't rescind a technical foul? Ref passes a glaring coach, as he turns away, he hears "You suck!" He whistles, signals, and reports a technical foul on the coach. His partner then tells him the actual speaker was a fan behind the bench.

Must we shoot then?

No. I've had this scenario, but where the person who stated "that was a crappy call" was one of the officials for the next game sitting behind the coach.
The difference was the T was rescinded before any FTs were shot.
Let me ask this. Is there any action that the rules say can be taken back after the penalty has been enforced? No, there's not.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rwest

No you are agreeing with me. You agree this is not a correctable error therefore rule 2.10 doesn't apply. Yet you have failed to show me the rule that says categorically that a T can't be wiped out. Since this situation doesn't fit the description of rule 2.10 we can't use it but there are other rules other than 2.10. This scenario is not covered by any rule, therefore, 2.3 is applicable.

What would happen if you called the T and where lining up to shoot the free throws but before the first three throw is taken the table buzzes you over? They found the original roster handed in by the coach. It had the player on the roster and the scorer just failed to copy it down.

What are you going to do?

Before the first FT is shot? I'll cancel it. After the FT? Too late.

[rockyroad]

Not going to read all 6.5 pages of this thread, so maybe this was already brought up...wouldn't the incorrect information given by the official scorekeeper be considered a bookkeeping error? And are we not allowed to correct those at any time?

If the table gives us bad information, we need to rectify that - otherwise we will have table crews start doing that sort of thing all the time.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Before the first FT is shot? I'll cancel it. After the FT? Too late.

Rule reference please

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rwest

Rule reference please

Where's yours? My point is simple, and Camron made it well too.

There has to be a limit on how far back you can go to rescind a T. Otherwise, are you suggesting you can go back and correct it two minutes later if that's when the table tells you they messed up?

Every single example of corrected infractions and mistakes in the book (aside from 2-10) tells you it ends once the throwin is complete. See Camron's posts.

I seem to remember an interp that said it was too late, but I'm not positive about that.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by rwest

All I am asking is for you to show me the rule that says you can't wipe out the T. You haven't yet! This is not covered by rule 2.10. There are other things we correct that is not listed under 2-10. You call a foul on number 13. You report it. We line up to shoot two free throws. The two free throws have been shot and the ball is out of bounds. The table buzzes you over. There is no 13 on the floor. There is a 31. You realized you called it on the wrong player. This is not a correctable error. So you can't change it by your reading of 2.10. No where in the rule book does it say we can now change the foul to number 31, but we do because it is the right thing to do.

You can't uncall the foul on 13. If there is no 13 in the book, one will have to be added. Charge the technical foul and move on.

[If the previous tags weren't enough, and anyone has any remote chance of taking me seriously, don't.]
________
Medical Marijuana

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Not going to read all 6.5 pages of this thread, so maybe this was already brought up...wouldn't the incorrect information given by the official scorekeeper be considered a bookkeeping error? And are we not allowed to correct those at any time?

If the table gives us bad information, we need to rectify that - otherwise we will have table crews start doing that sort of thing all the time.

We have a winner.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

There has to be a limit on how far back you can go to rescind a T. Otherwise, are you suggesting you can go back and correct it two minutes later if that's when the table tells you they messed up?

Why does there have to be a limit? There is no limit on correcting a bookkeeping error. Consider this a ripple of that bookkeeping error.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

We have a winner.

So what's your time limit? A calls a timeout with no 3 seconds left, table tells you they had none left, so you call the T and shoot the shots. B's shots tie the score and you go into overtime. Two minutes into overtime, the table realizes the error and tells you that A did in fact have a timeout left at the time. You going to wipe the points at this point?

[Adam]

A bookkeeping error does not include the FTs that were shot. A bookkeeping error led to the T, sure, but the FTs themselves are not a bookkeeping error.