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Old Tue Dec 28, 2010, 02:13pm
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A Rare Free Throw Violation

Don't see this called too often.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10kM86Q5twc
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Old Tue Dec 28, 2010, 02:19pm
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Last week in a girls varsity game I got up to 9 seconds and was about to blow my whistle when the girl released. She did this every free throw she had. I thought I was going to have to call the violation but fortunately I did not. I have yet to have to call that violation
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Old Tue Dec 28, 2010, 02:26pm
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You waited until the release to stop your count?
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Old Tue Dec 28, 2010, 02:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyinTN View Post
Last week in a girls varsity game I got up to 9 seconds and was about to blow my whistle when the girl released.
Just exactly at what point in your count were you going to call the violation?
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Old Tue Dec 28, 2010, 02:55pm
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uh....10 seconds....what am I missing that you all seem to see
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Old Tue Dec 28, 2010, 03:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyinTN View Post
What am I missing that you all seem to see
Hint: I've been playing, coaching, and officiating basketball for over forty years, including thirty years officiating, and this is the first time I've ever seen the violation called. That's a lot of basketball games without seeing this particular violation called.

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Old Tue Dec 28, 2010, 03:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyinTN View Post
uh....10 seconds....what am I missing that you all seem to see
This is the one timing violation that's typically not called at 10 seconds exactly.
1. I have a very slow count on FTs.
2. I have a very slow count on FTs.
3. If I get to 10 and the shooter is about to shoot, I'm not blowing.
4. If I get to 11 and shooter is about to shoot, I'm not blowing.
5. I have a very slow count on FTs. (I've never gone past 8)
6. If I've gotten to 15 and the shooter is just standing there, I'll think about blowing the whistle.

Seriously, I like the call in the video, as Howard is just standing there; not even close to shooting when the whistle blows.
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Old Tue Dec 28, 2010, 03:12pm
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I agree - as I said I have never seen it called nor called it myself but the question I have is I was asked at what point in the count was I going to call the violation since I had reached 9 in the count. I am try to figure out what I am missing about this rule then?

99% of the time most shooters shoot the ball before I get to 5

But if we give them 15 seconds to shoot that means that we are making our own rules up for the game. I am a slow counter so by the time I get to 10 it is probably closer to 12 or 13 seconds. I am not looking for violations to call but if you aren't going to call this one, why not give them 15 seconds to get the ball across the division line, or 15 seconds to get it inbounded, etc.

Last edited by RobbyinTN; Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 03:17pm.
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Old Tue Dec 28, 2010, 03:25pm
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Apologies To Potter Stewart ...

"I know it when I see it, and the violation involved in this case is not that."

I've got up to twelve a couple of times. I honestly don't know how high I would count before I called a vilolation. I do have a limit. I just don't know what it is. Hopefully I'll know it when I get there. I just hope that I never get there.
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Old Tue Dec 28, 2010, 03:52pm
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I use a slow count, as well. And, my count ends when the player begins his/her habitual shooting motion, as opposed to on the release.

edit: "shooting motion" can be tricky for at least one reason. Sometimes, the pending FT try will be made by a player that's yet to shoot a FT yet. So, how in the heck do I really know what their 'shooting motion' looks like? Hence, I just stop counting when they raise the ball after dribbling/spinning routine. right or wrong, I've never blown for this violation.

Last edited by DLH17; Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 03:58pm.
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Old Tue Dec 28, 2010, 04:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
This is the one timing violation that's typically not called at 10 seconds exactly.
1. I have a very slow count on FTs.
2. I have a very slow count on FTs.
3. If I get to 10 and the shooter is about to shoot, I'm not blowing.
4. If I get to 11 and shooter is about to shoot, I'm not blowing.
5. I have a very slow count on FTs. (I've never gone past 8)
6. If I've gotten to 15 and the shooter is just standing there, I'll think about blowing the whistle.

Seriously, I like the call in the video, as Howard is just standing there; not even close to shooting when the whistle blows.
Agreed on all accounts.

Apparently the NBA League office had warned Howard and the Magic that he was taking too long on free throws and that officials had been instructed to call it. In the video Howard already had the ball at :02 and the violation is called at :16 and he does not appear to even being close to starting his shooting motion.

In over 15 years of playing, coaching, and officiating, and watching MANY, MANY games I had NEVER seen this called until working an AAU game this summer. My partner called it and I didnt even see it because I was tying my shoe. He said the kid stepped away from the line with the ball. I was laughing saying I had never seen that actually called and that I was glad he was taking his time so that I could get myself together. It seemed kind of quick but neither the coach or player really said anything.
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Old Tue Dec 28, 2010, 04:33pm
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I think the main reason officials are reluctant to call this is because there's no advantage gained by the shooter in delaying. The clock is stopped and the rebounders are already in position along the lane. Maybe shooters who take a long time to shoot are just using the time to picture their technique in their mind as some kind of mental tool to help themselves make a better shot. I think I've called it once or twice in my career and only because the time was excessive.
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Old Tue Dec 28, 2010, 04:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaTerp View Post
Agreed on all accounts.

Apparently the NBA League office had warned Howard and the Magic that he was taking too long on free throws and that officials had been instructed to call it. In the video Howard already had the ball at :02 and the violation is called at :16 and he does not appear to even being close to starting his shooting motion.

In over 15 years of playing, coaching, and officiating, and watching MANY, MANY games I had NEVER seen this called until working an AAU game this summer. My partner called it and I didnt even see it because I was tying my shoe. He said the kid stepped away from the line with the ball. I was laughing saying I had never seen that actually called and that I was glad he was taking his time so that I could get myself together. It seemed kind of quick but neither the coach or player really said anything.
THERE'S the problem. Kids are so used to having us wait until they tie their shoes, that in this case, the kid was waiting for you to tie YOURS.
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Old Tue Dec 28, 2010, 04:38pm
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We should all try the FIBA rule: 5 seconds, not 10 seconds like in NFHS, NCAA, and NBA/WNBA.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Tue Dec 28, 2010, 04:39pm
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
We should all try the FIBA rule: 5 seconds, not 10 seconds like in NFHS, NCAA, and NBA/WNBA.

MTD, Sr.


Are those metric seconds?
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