Time out

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mregor

Why? If you haven't called a held ball, it's by default, still PC/TC of the person who had it. To me, this is simple. Grant TO for original team in control up until the point you deem it a held ball. If you deem it a held ball prior to hearing the TO request, then call the held ball. That's the 2 choices here. Either it was a held ball before the TO request (held ball) or the TO was prior to the held ball (grant TO).

Frankly, because there's no time requirement for a held ball. The held ball starts when the players have grasped it, even if it takes me a second to recognize the situation.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Frankly, because there's no time requirement for a held ball. The held ball starts when the players have grasped it, even if it takes me a second to recognize the situation.

Again, how are you going to rule on this play.

PLAY
A1 has the ball and B1 attempts to grab it. Obviously, there's going to be a held ball. The trail blows the whistle as Coach A has requested a timeout. A second later, the lead blows his whistle for a held ball.
Are you honestly going to tell me that you're going to ignore the first whistle and go with the second whistle?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Again, how are you going to rule on this play.

PLAY
A1 has the ball and B1 attempts to grab it. Obviously, there's going to be a held ball. The trail blows the whistle as Coach A has requested a timeout. A second later, the lead blows his whistle for a held ball.
Are you honestly going to tell me that you're going to ignore the first whistle and go with the second whistle?

B1 attempts to grab it? Does he grab it or not?

And way to complicate matters with the 2nd official; no, I'm not going with the 2nd whistle. If the on-ball official holds the whistle too long, and the off-ball official recognizes a TO request before the held ball whistle, I'll go with the TO.

But while I personally am not going to recognize the TO request when there is "dual possession," I'm not going to get into a pissing match with a partner over it either.

[BktBallRef]

[quote=Snaqwells;710664]B1 attempts to grab it? Does he grab it or not?[/quote

Who knows? These things happen so fast in a game. That's my point, that the whistles are really the only reference points we had with regard to the request and the held ball. The off ball official won't know whether there's four hands on the ball or not unless he hears a whistle.

And way to complicate matters with the 2nd official; no, I'm not going with the 2nd whistle. If the on-ball official holds the whistle too long, and the off-ball official recognizes a TO request before the held ball whistle, I'll go with the TO.

But isn't that the most likely possibility? Whether two or three man, you're likely to have one offical focused on the ball and timeout being granted by an off the ball official.

But while I personally am not going to recognize the TO request when there is "dual possession," I'm not going to get into a pissing match with a partner over it either.

That's because you'll see and whistle a held ball when it occurs. And again, that's our reference point.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

That's because you'll see and whistle a held ball when it occurs. And again, that's our reference point.

True, but I tend to hold my whistle a moment to see if one player or the other can safely wrest control from the other.

If, in that brief moment of indecision, coach requests a TO, I see myself moving directly to HB. That's how I've done it, and it's served me relatively well. I can't imagine being able to say the same thing if a HB were to occur in front of B's coach and A's coach is granted a TO and possession simply because a TO was requested in the time between the ball being grasped by both sides and my decision to whistle for the HB.

"Why does he get the ball?"
"His player had control."
"So did mine, why wasn't it a held ball?"

Again, it seems to me the held ball starts when the grasping starts, even if we take a moment to determine if it's sufficiently "lodged" between players.