First Game in 4 Hours!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mj

Or rock-paper-scissors.

Busy this week? I have 3 (tonight, tomorrow, Thursday). Only one is a tourney -- the championship of a 4-team thing tomorrow night.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Seriously, though, what shots do you call? You toss the ball (or designate the tosser) and have defined areas of responsibility as the referee,

My pregame recently as R has included "Other than tossing the ball, there's only a few things that the R alone has responsibility for. Your job as U(s) is to make sure we don't get in any of those situations."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

My pregame recently as R has included "Other than tossing the ball, there's only a few things that the R alone has responsibility for. Your job as U(s) is to make sure we don't get in any of those situations."

Exactly. But I've worked with Rs who think it's their jobs (you know one of these guys) to tell the Us how to officiate. I want all my partners to be Rs (in the camp-speak vernacular, not as the designated R for the game) and the only time I'll jump in is if we have something weird and I don't know what's going on or I don't think the coaches were adequately notified.

(Example: We had two players get tangled up after a basket. T blew his whistle, stepped in while they untangled, and then got ready to put the ball in play. As the L, I had no idea what happened -- I thought maybe we had a delay-of-game warning, which would need to be recorded. The coach in my lap had *no* idea what had happened. So I hit my whistle and asked my partner and then communicated to both benches. I was the R on the game, but I would've done the same had I been the U1 or U2 in the book.)

[mj]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Busy this week? I have 3 (tonight, tomorrow, Thursday). Only one is a tourney -- the championship of a 4-team thing tomorrow night.

5. Double dip on Thursday, JUCO followed by a non-conference between D1 #2 and D2 #2.

All 3-person except tonight.

[mj]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

My pregame recently as R has included "Other than tossing the ball, there's only a few things that the R alone has responsibility for. Your job as U(s) is to make sure we don't get in any of those situations."

Great advice Bob.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Seriously, though, what shots do you call? You toss the ball (or designate the tosser) and have defined areas of responsibility as the referee, but the R's responsibilities don't include telling the rest of the crew how to work the game.

Never said it did.

The shots I call are related directly to the referee's responsibilities. Most specifically, that's addressing any issues that might occur with the table crew and the proper administration of the game. I can't, and I'm not going to, over rule a call but as the R I'm going to make sure we properly penalize anything that's called. We're going to discuss situations as needed and if a decision has to be made, I'll make it.

For example, this happened in a game two years ago when we had a fill-in.

Second half, A1 is holding the ball in the low post when B1 attempts to grab it. A1 is doing a good job avoiding the held ball when there's a whistle from the trail. TWEET, "TIMEOUT!" He grants a timeout to Coach B. Coach A gives me a "WTF" look? I have to agree.

We grant the timeout to B. After the timeout, I explained to her that A1 had possession of the ball and that the timeout should not have been granted. As such, it's A's ball on the endline.

Had I not been the R, the situation could have been more difficult to correct.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Never said it did.

The "shots" I call are related directly to the referee's responsibilities. Most specifically, that's addressing any issues that might occur with the table crew and the proper administration of the game. I can't, and I'm not going to, over rule a call but as the R I'm going to make sure we properly penalize anything that's called. We're going to discuss situations as needed and if a decision has to be made, I'll make it.

For example, this happened in a game two years ago when we had a fill-in.

Second half, A1 is holding the ball in the low post when B1 attempts to grab it. A1 is doing a good job avoiding the held ball when there's a whistle from the trail. TWEET, "TIMEOUT!" He grants a timeout to Coach B. Coach A gives me a "WTF" look? I have to agree.

We grant the timeout to B. After the timeout, I explained to her that A1 had possession of the ball and that the timeout should not have been granted. As such, it's A's ball on the endline.

Had I not been the R, the situation could have been more difficult to correct.

Why? Any official can screw that up and once the whistle blows the only choice is to enforce it as an IW and give the ball back to A. I can make that mistake if I'm the R, U1, or U2. If the R granted that timeout, I would make sure that I stepped in and made sure that we got it right.

I don't see any magical powers required here.

I usually let the junior person (if I'm working with a stranger) "be the R" if only to let that person lead the pregame, etc. Once the game starts, it's usually obvious if one official's stronger than the other, anyway.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Why? Any official can screw that up and once the whistle blows the only choice is to enforce it as an IW and give the ball back to A.

Umm...if B's coach requested the TO, and it was incorrectly granted (because A still had the ball), the TO is still awared and taken under Fed. rules. It's an IW only under NCAA rules, I believe.

Maybe that's why Tony needed to step in as the R.

But, otherwise, I agree with both of you. Of course, there aren't any "magical powers" associated with the duty, but sometimes a stronger personality is needed on a crew, and that person is usually better off being the R.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Umm...if B's coach requested the TO, and it was incorrectly granted (because A still had the ball), the TO is still awared and taken under Fed. rules. It's an IW only under NCAA rules, I believe.

Maybe that's why Tony needed to step in as the R.

But, otherwise, I agree with both of you. Of course, there aren't any "magical powers" associated with the duty, but sometimes a stronger personality is needed on a crew, and that person is usually better off being the R.

The *whistle* is an IW. The timeout is then granted by rule.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The *whistle* is an IW. The timeout is then granted by rule.

Ok, figured you knew that.

I only wanted to point that out to newbies that might want to simply say "never mind" and not grant the TO. I happen to "own" this rule because of...ahem...experience.

[Scuba_ref]

can declare a forfeit, that is a pretty big shot to call. Did it once at a church ball game (of course) where I was the R the U1 and the U2.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Why? Any official can screw that up and once the whistle blows the only choice is to enforce it as an IW and give the ball back to A. I can make that mistake if I'm the R, U1, or U2. If the R granted that timeout, I would make sure that I stepped in and made sure that we got it right.

That's great unless you get the occasional idiot assigned with you. What if the guy who you made the R says, "No, I'm the referee and this is what we're going to do"? Then we have a problem on the floor where officials are disagreeing with each other. For example:

I was working the bases in a rec league baseball game a few years ago. As the pitcher came set while looking at the runner at 2nd, the batter stepped out of the box. The pitcher started his motion and stopped when he saw the batter out of the box. The idiot behind the plate called a balk. I tried to explain that it was clearly defined in the rules that this was not a balk. Coach B also knew the rule and it didn't take long to get ugly. In the end, the idiot wouldn't listen.

So please don't tell me it can't be an advantage to be the head official in such a situation. No, my way, that's not going to happen when I have a choice.

I don't see any magical powers required here.

Magical? No. By rule? Yes. They're listed in rules 2-3 and 2-5.

I usually let the junior person (if I'm working with a stranger) "be the R" if only to let that person lead the pregame, etc. Once the game starts, it's usually obvious if one official's stronger than the other, anyway.

I can have the junior person give the pregame. I can even have him toss the ball if I want to. I don't need to make him the R to do that.

There's no right or wrong here. If that works for you, great. Hope it doesn't bite you in the a$$ some day. My way works for me and that's the way I will continue to work it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I don't see any magical powers required here.

IAABO mechanics mandate that when a technical foul is charged to the head coach, then the referee, and only the referee, will inform the head coach that he, or she, is required to sit down.

Here, in our little corner of the Constitution State, we have decided to ignore that mechanic. We have the noncalling official infom the head coach that he, or she, is required to sit down.

I just discovered that this season. Got that question wrong on the IAABO mechanics exam.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

UPDATE: The R turned out to be a guy with 40 years plus experience and took control of the game from the minute we stepped on the court and he counseled me thru the game and was very verbal.

Here is what I experience my first ever time on da floor:

1) Watch the Ball way too Much!
2) Need to get deeper off the base line and not right on top of it for a much better angle.
3) Multiple times messed up on throw in by not being on the outside of the player..2nd half I corrected this by telling player please hold your spot and then I could position myself correctly
4) Kicked an over and back call
5) I was way too slow with the pace of putting the ball back in play..waiting for partner to get set. He told me to pick up the pace at half time and I did!
6) We had a book problem..player not listed..the R assessed the T.


Good Stuff:

1) Commuincated well on throw in spots
2) Paid attention to who the shooter was and who foul was on
3) started and stopped the clock with proper mechanic
4) Solid Free Throw Admin
5) Coaches did not yell at us
6) Survived the game with no major problems

Thanks Guys for all your Kind Words!

This is willingness to accept feedback and do a good post-game review for yourself tells me that your head is in the right place, you are good at taking care of business, and that you're on the right track. Keep it up!

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I happen to "own" this rule because of...ahem...experience.

And I own it too.....recently. Thankfully, it was in a fall, developmental league.