Team T?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I think I can answer my own question. Like you guys, I've been thinking that the issue of whether to assess a team T or a player T turns on whether we can identify the guilty party.
But now I think that's wrong. 10-2 concerns substitutes, and we can assess an individual T on illegal subs when they are still subs.

A "sub" who runs onto the court during a live ball instantly becomes a player according to 4-34-3. So the reason it's "too late" to hit A1 with an illegal sub T in 10.2.1A (b) is that A1 is no longer a sub once the ball is live.

That's why the live/dead ball issue is relevant: it determines whether or not you're dealing with a substitute or a player. If it's a sub, we use 10-2. If it's a player, you have to go with 10-1-6, not because you don't know who's an illegal sub, but because there are no subs, and you have 6 players.

Sound right?

I think you were right before.

What if A1 saves the ball from going OOB and lands on his bench? At that point, A6 runs in and replaces him. Ball is live the whole time.

[Back In The Saddle]

10.2.1.A does not deal with a substitute who enters the game while the ball is live. It clearly addresses two variations on a sub entering during a dead ball.

For a sub who enters during a live ball, you need to look at 10.2.2.

10.2.2 SITUATION: During a live ball and with the clock running, substitute A6 enters the court. RULING: A technical foul is charged if recognized by an official before the ball becomes live following the first dead ball.

The fact that it is case 10.2.2 tells us it is a Substitute Technical for a sub entering the court without being beckoned. If it were meant to be a Team Technical for B participating with six players, it would be case 10.1.6.Something-or-other.

Also, please don't let the live ball thing throw you. There is a very significant difference, significant rules-wise and significant in "real life" between a ball that is live and a ball that becomes live. Both 10.2.1.A and 3-3-3, which contributes to 10.2.1.A, talk about the ball becoming live. That is a change of status, from dead to live. There is no change of status from live to "still live". Thus any discussion of the illegal sub becoming a player once the ball becomes live requires that the ball first become dead. Which is the basis behind 10.2.2's ruling.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

10.2.1.A does not deal with a substitute who enters the game while the ball is live. It clearly addresses two variations on a sub entering during a dead ball.

For a sub who enters during a live ball, you need to look at 10.2.2.

10.2.2 SITUATION: During a live ball and with the clock running, substitute A6 enters the court. RULING: A technical foul is charged if recognized by an official before the ball becomes live following the first dead ball.

The fact that it is case 10.2.2 tells us it is a Substitute Technical for a sub entering the court without being beckoned. If it were meant to be a Team Technical for B participating with six players, it would be case 10.1.6.Something-or-other.

Also, please don't let the live ball thing throw you. There is a very significant difference, significant rules-wise and significant in "real life" between a ball that is live and a ball that becomes live. Both 10.2.1.A and 3-3-3, which contributes to 10.2.1.A, talk about the ball becoming live. That is a change of status, from dead to live. There is no change of status from live to "still live". Thus any discussion of the illegal sub becoming a player once the ball becomes live requires that the ball first become dead. Which is the basis behind 10.2.2's ruling.

I agree with this & what J.R.said earlier.

Had something very similar happen last week in a BJV game. A1 on the line shooting first half of a 1+1. Just as he released his attempt, B6 runs from his bench past the table & onto the court without being beckoned. The FT was not successful and we blew the ball dead. We charged B6 with the T, A2 made the resulting two FT attempts, then we gave ball to A for inbound at the division line.

[just another ref]

I had a situation similar to this one. We kicked it around.

What's the call?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I had a situation similar to this one. We kicked it around.

What's the call?

Blarge?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Blarge?

ROFLMAO!

MTD, Sr.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Blarge?

A blarge is not similar to anything.

It is actually a mythical thing which doesn't exist, except in Dexter land, maybe.