Ugly Timeout Situation - Discussed Before

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In other words, here in our little corner of Connecticut, the last thing that we do is ensure player control before granting the timeout. You won't find this in either the NFHS, nor the IAABO, manual, or rulebook. This should help us avoid the situation that Mr. Cahill found himself in back in February.

Unfortunately, while you're doing so you're also avoiding the purpose and intent of the rule. And in some situations, you may also be penalizing a team that has asked for a legitimate TO which you have refused without any concrete rules basis for doing so.

If a team has player control at the time of a time-out request, you have no rules justification to deny that request.

Are there any other rules that your little corner of Connecticut has chosen to change?

Lah me.......

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If a team has player control at the time of a time-out request, you have no rules justification to deny that request.

If you're looking at the bench to make sure that it is indeed the correct team requesting the timeout, and that it is indeed the head coach who is making the request, then how do you know that the correct team has player control, without looking back at the court, and the player in control?

Your right, we are not following any NFHS rule, or for that matter, any NFHS, or IAABO, mechanics, but the wordng of these references is "fuzzy".

The spirit and purpose of the rule is to ensure that the correct team, the head coach of said team, and a player on said team has player control, all three at the same time. Tough to do if you have to visually observe the team bench, which forces, in some, but not all, cases, the official to turn away from the action on the court.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If you're looking at the bench to make sure that it is indeed the correct team requesting the timeout, and that it is indeed the head coach who is making the request, then how do you know that the correct team has player control, without looking back at the court, and the player in control?

Your right, we are not following any NFHS rule, or for that matter, any NFHS, or IAABO, mechanics, but the wordng of these references is "fuzzy".

The spirit and purpose of the rule is to ensure that the correct team, the head coach of said team, and a player on said team has player control, all three at the same time. Tough to do if you have to visually observe the team bench, which forces, in some, but not all, cases, the official to turn away from the action on the court.

You know there's player control because you're looking at the court when the request is given. If you're looking to the coach to verify that, then looking back to the court *again*......never mind, JR have covered it quite well already.

Last night we had a nutcutter, my first one this season. This exact thing happened in OT. Player trapped in the corner, I'm in front of the bench, 2-person trail. I hear a timeout request, player clearly has possession, I look to the bench to see the coach trying to get my attention, verifying he was, indeed requesting a timeout. By this time air went into whistle, the ball was knocked loose. I couldn't possibly care -- it's a legally requested (and granted) time out, as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, I took grief. Yes, I told the other coach that the player had the ball when the coach requested the timeout. Yes, the other coach disagreed and was annoyed. No, I don't care. Like I told the other coach, I'd do the same thing if he was the one requesting the timeout. Until they change the rule, I'm going to continue granting the timeout in this situation because that's what I'm supposed to do.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

You know there's player control because you're looking at the court when the request is given.

And what if the ball is not in your primary coverage area?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And what if the ball is not in your primary coverage area?

Who cares? As soon as I think I hear the coach requesting a timeout, I *look* for the basketball. I have good eyes (I can see the sun and it's 93 million miles away).

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I have good eyes (I can see the sun and it's 93 million miles away).

...OH NO!

I can see this statement pop in my silly little smart a$$ head tonight...

...I'll let you guys know how that one goes.

(BTW...chseagle will be at the table tonight...he really is, usually, right on top of things and a very conscious scorekeeper/timer)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

...
(BTW...chseagle will be at the table tonight...he really is, usually, right on top of things and a very conscious scorekeeper/timer)

Say hi to the Eagle from all of us and wish him and Lady chseagle a Merry Christmas for us too.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

...OH NO!

I can see this statement pop in my silly little smart a$$ head tonight...

...I'll let you guys know how that one goes.

(BTW...chseagle will be at the table tonight...he really is, usually, right on top of things and a very conscious scorekeeper/timer)

I would hate to have one that is unconscious.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And what if the ball is not in your primary coverage area?

McBilly has a good point here. Often, especially if there's significant backcourt pressure and an impending held ball situation, the new lead -- not actually real close to the on-ball action, has a better awareness of the coach's request and can assess player control from a distance. Isn't it correct that sometimes it's a "line-of-sight" issue in which the other guy actually has a better vantage point? His head doesn't have to do the periscope thing to verify the necessary elements.

[26 Year Gap]

One of the things I try to do at the Captains and Coaches pre-game meeting is to say: "Players, you know your coach's voice better than we do. If he/she is requesting a time out and your team has control, you can call for time out." Very few players do this, but it doesn't hurt to bring the point up. Live ball time out requests by player only, would be a vast improvement and would lessen the confrontational opportunities. during a typical game.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

One of the things I try to do at the Captains and Coaches pre-game meeting is to say: "Players, you know your coach's voice better than we do. If he/she is requesting a time out and your team has control, you can call for time out." Very few players do this, but it doesn't hurt to bring the point up. Live ball time out requests by player only, would be a vast improvement and would lessen the confrontational opportunities. during a typical game.

That would extend my 10-second captain's meeting.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

That would extend my 10-second captain's meeting.

*cue miniature violin*

[Rich]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

*cue miniature violin*

While I'm at it, I can ask them to help out with loose balls, point out all of the floor markings, and remind them not to hand check.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Live ball time out requests by player only, would be a vast improvement and would lessen the confrontational opportunities during a typical game.

The way it was before the Gap ???

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The way it was before the Gap ???

Actually, we had the point of transition to worry about back then, too. And the 5 seconds to inbound did not end on the release.