Roll over = travel

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

For example, to use a variation of 4-44-5b, an additional definition of travelling could read, "after gaining control while on the floor and lying on his/her back or torso, may not roll to his/her side." (or vice versa, side to back/torso)

And you would have no problem defining when the player was "on his side" as opposed to almost "on his side"?

[Jurassic Referee]

The clarification in both the NFHS and NCAA case books say that it's a violation for a player on the floor holding the ball to roll over. It doesn't say it's a violation for them to roll to their side. And if you're not sure what "over" means, ask your rules interpreter. Well, that might not be good advice for bainsey.....

Paralysis through analysis.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The clarification in both the NFHS and NCAA case books say that it's a violation for a player on the floor holding the ball to roll over. It doesn't say it's a violation for them to roll to their side. And if you're not sure what "over" means, ask your rules interpreter. Well, that might not be good advice for bainsey.....

Paralysis through analysis.

I agree. OVER is the key word. To me from one side to the other does not constitute OVER. I need to see the torso flip.

This is certainly a gray area, but I feel that too many officials over-penalize the hustling player with a violation here. Reward the kid who gets to the ball first and allow him to make a play.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is certainly a gray area, but I feel that too many officials over-penalize the hustling player with a violation here. Reward the kid who gets to the ball first and allow him to make a play.

So we let the kid roll over on his side to get away from the defender who's trying to get the ball? Yep, makes sense, let's penalize the defender.


Traveling every time for me.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

So we let the kid roll over on his side to get away from the defender who's trying to get the ball? Yep, makes sense, let's penalize the defender.


Traveling every time for me.

So if a player secures a loose ball lying flat on his back and lifts his left shoulder blade and left butt cheek off the floor to pass to a teammate, that is "rolling over" and you're going to call a travel?

I'm with Nevada on this one.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by zm1283

So if a player secures a loose ball lying flat on his back and lifts his left shoulder blade and left butt cheek off the floor to pass to a teammate, that is "rolling over" and you're going to call a travel?

I'm with Nevada on this one.

Seriously? That's what you get from that post? Wow.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Seriously? That's what you get from that post? Wow.

I'm just doing what people do on this board all the time: Infer things from a post that the author may or may not have meant.

In all seriousness, I don't agree with how BktBallRef interprets this rule. I believe "roll over" means to roll over to your other side, whether it be your front or back. If I'm on my back with the ball and I end up on my side momentarily to pass to a teammate or request a timeout, I would consider that a "lean" or a "twist", not a "roll over".

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by zm1283

So if a player secures a loose ball lying flat on his back and lifts his left shoulder blade and left butt cheek off the floor to pass to a teammate, that is "rolling over" and you're going to call a travel?

I'm with Nevada on this one.

#1, lifting the shoulder has nothing to do with it. He can sit up if he chooses to.

#2, If he rolls over on his side, it's traveling. Nowhere did you read that I said it was traveling to lift a butt cheek. Please don't make things up. You lose cedibility, if you have any.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

#1, lifting the shoulder has nothing to do with it. He can sit up if he chooses to.

If I lift my left shoulder and left butt cheek off the floor, I'm not lying flat on my back anymore, so that would be rolling onto my side, would it not?

#2, If he rolls over on his side, it's traveling. Nowhere did you read that I said it was traveling to lift a butt cheek. Please don't make things up. You lose cedibility, if you have any.

The bolded part is your opinion of course.

I explained to someone else in my next post that I was being somewhat sarcastic, but the point still holds true. I'm not making things up. If you lay flat on your back and start to roll to your right by lifting your left shoulder and left butt cheek off the floor, you're going to be on your side rather quickly.

I don't need you to determine if I have credibility or not. There is no way to know by a message board if people are credible or not. I imagine there are some pretty subpar officials who post on here all the time who are held in high esteem, and some very good officials who hardly ever post on here.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It doesn't say it's a violation for them to roll to their side.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

So we let the kid roll over on his side to get away from the defender who's trying to get the ball? Yep, makes sense, let's penalize the defender....Traveling every time for me.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is certainly a gray area...

I believe this illustrates my point.