Tripping from Behind

[bainsey]

Nothing obfuscatory here, JR. You simply missed my point.

Originally Posted by Freddy

Question: With no official mechanic for "tripping", which signal should properly be used when reporting foul to the table...

In the NFHS book, I see five options:
*Blocking
*Pushing
*Holding
*Hand Check
*Illegal Use

Does one push when tripping? Or hold? Or hand check? None of the above, typically. Blocking, I can see, sometimes.

If given the choices, I would say tripping mostly goes to illegal use. (If it were incidental, there would be no whistle, anyway.) It certainly isn't the perfect signal under the circumstances, but I can't find a better one of those five.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Nothing obfuscatory here, JR. You simply missed my point.


In the NFHS book, I see five options:
*Blocking
*Pushing
*Holding
*Hand Check
*Illegal Use

Does one push when tripping? Or hold? Or hand check? None of the above, typically. Blocking, I can see, sometimes.

If given the choices, I would say tripping mostly goes to illegal use. (If it were incidental, there would be no whistle, anyway.) It certainly isn't the perfect signal under the circumstances, but I can't find a better one of those five.

I'm not sure that I would use the "illegal use" or "hack" signal when reporting a trip. That signal implies the defender did something illegal with his/her arms. I would use the "block" or "push" signals because those two are things that can be done with body parts other than the hand/arm.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Nothing obfuscatory here, JR. You simply missed my point.

Lot of that going around lately. Just put it down to ol' JR being dumb as a post, bainsey. Btw the answer to your question "Wouldn't we consider tripping a form of illegal contact? is yes.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Nothing obfuscatory here, JR. You simply missed my point.


In the NFHS book, I see five options:
*Blocking
*Pushing
*Holding
*Hand Check
*Illegal Use

Does one push when tripping? Or hold? Or hand check? None of the above, typically. Blocking, I can see, sometimes.

If given the choices, I would say tripping mostly goes to illegal use. (If it were incidental, there would be no whistle, anyway.) It certainly isn't the perfect signal under the circumstances, but I can't find a better one of those five.

Can't be "Illegal Use"...that is short of "Illegal use of hands (arms)".

It is blocking as it is done with a leg extended outside of the player's LGP or plain legal position. If it is not outside of the player's LGP/legal position, it is not a foul.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It is blocking as it is done with a leg extended outside of the player's LGP or plain legal position.

If the trip occurred while blocking, then it's certainly blocking. But, tripping from behind ain't blocking.

Yes, "illegal" is short for "illegal use of hands." But, I certainly don't say the entire phrase, nor do I say "hack." "Illegal" is the only applicable one left, IMO.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bainsey

But, tripping from behind ain't blocking.

What make you say this? Tripping from behind seems to fit the definition pretty well.

4-7-1: Blocking is illegal personal contact which impedes the progress of
an opponent with or without the ball.

[just another ref]

Does it really make that much difference?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Does it really make that much difference?

No. But someone has to worry about it so they can sleep well at night I guess.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Does it really make that much difference?

Naw, it's just another item on the long list of things that I could give a damn less about.

Everybody in the gym knows why the foul was called anyway.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Everybody in the gym knows why the foul was called anyway.

Reaching in?

[BillyMac]

"There's a difference between being tripped, and tripping." (Confucius)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"There's a difference between being tripped, and tripping." (Confucius)

I think it was Timothy Leary that said that, not Confucius.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I think it was Timothy Leary that said that, not Confucius.

"Hey, who's the fat guy?" - Confucius

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I think it was Timothy Leary that said that, not Confucius.

No. Dr. Leary said, "Turn on, tune in, drop out".

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Does it really make that much difference?

The difference I was hoping to hear was one which might solve the occasional protest of the offending team's coach when he says, "A BLOCK??? He wasn't even in front of him!!!" Or, "A PUSH??? He didn't even touch him with his hands!!!" (Even worse, "He didn't mean it...c'mon, let 'em play out there!!!")
At the end of all the fine responses, I guess I'd say it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. I'll go with the AP arrow on this one.
Whichever mechanic is used -- and, as your relies seem to say, both seem to fit the circumstance -- a brief, verbal word of clarification, "Tripping" along with either signal should suffice to clear up the coach's unbiased, objective, neutral, calmly expressed concern.
I thank all respondents who responded for your responsive responses.