Contact, Wait for It, Miss, Tweet.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When you say someone is fouled, that is completely a judgment.

Ah no, it's not.

He created a hypothetical situation and said that B1 gained advantage by contacting A1. That's a foul and that's the scenario he setup.

He could have simply asked the question, "When a shooter is fouled, do you wait and see if the basket is good before making the call?"

I'm sure you'll come back with some stupid BS reply like you have for over 10 years but when somebody asks a question and says a foul occurred, then a foul occurred.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Ah no, it's not.

Yes it is. Because every single time I am at a camp or meeting or training we have there are different opinions on plays. For my association we often use video of plays and show foul and violation calls and I cannot think of a single time where everyone agrees with all the plays. Whether is it block/charge calls or travels, those observing will disagree. Now maybe they all agree on everything they see in your area, but I have yet to experience this and certainly not on plays that this OP talked about. My partners and I had a big disagreement over several plays we had where the basket counted. It was pointed out to me that "normally you would let that go." I disagreed, but that just goes to show even people you share a basic philosophy with will disagree about the same play. But it is all BS because you say it is.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes it is. Because every single time I am at a camp or meeting or training we have there are different opinions on plays. For my association we often use video of plays and show foul and violation calls and I cannot think of a single time where everyone agrees with all the plays. Whether is it block/charge calls or travels, those observing will disagree. Now maybe they all agree on everything they see in your area, but I have yet to experience this and certainly not on plays that this OP talked about. My partners and I had a big disagreement over several plays we had where the basket counted. It was pointed out to me that "normally you would let that go." I disagreed, but that just goes to show even people you share a basic philosophy with will disagree about the same play. But it is all BS because you say it is.

Peace

Jeff, you are arguing with the basic premise of the OP. There was advantage written into the scenario. You seem to be saying there might not have been.

Or are you saying there can be advantage and no foul?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Jeff, you are arguing with the basic premise of the OP. There was advantage written into the scenario. You seem to be saying there might not have been.

Or are you saying there can be advantage and no foul?

He doesn't get it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Jeff, you are arguing with the basic premise of the OP. There was advantage written into the scenario. You seem to be saying there might not have been.

Or are you saying there can be advantage and no foul?

The OP asked two philosophical questions. I was not even concerned with the play or if or if not a foul should have been called. I feel that we decide things on many factors and the ball going in or likely to go in is a factor in my opinion. If I felt it was the only factor I would never call a foul on a shot where I count the basket. I have too many times on tape where I do that. And one case was clearly in a game that anyone could have seen on TV last February.

Peace

[Terrapins Fan]

Almost every game I officiate, is filmed. Coaches bring film to our executive board all of the time complaining about EVERYTHING, 5 second closely guarded, fouls, carries. EVERYTHING.

If you see it, call it. If you don't in time you will hear about it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

....the ball going in or likely to go in is a factor in my opinion.

As noted above, your opinion, which I am sure is shared by others, is not supported by rule.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

As noted above, your opinion, which I am sure is shared by others, is not supported by rule.

I think we spend too much time here talking about what is supported by rule as if everything we do is supported by rule. If that was the case then there would be no need for these sites and many officiating publications or trainings.

Peace

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think we spend too much time here talking about what is supported by rule as if everything we do is supported by rule. If that was the case then there would be no need for these sites and many officiating publications or trainings.

Peace

I agree. Judgment is a huge part of officiating.

The OP talks about "advantageous contact." Well, what's advantageous can be a matter or opinion and judgment. In some cases, whether or not the ball goes in can be part of deciding whether or not the contact was indeed advantageous.

In certain situations, I will factor in whether or not the ball went in. And I think this is what the OP was getting at. Obvious contact, of course, you have a whistle no matter what. But there are instances where there is marginal contact and you have to decide whether or not it's advantageous.