I think chseagle was my timer tonight

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Do you know how many games I've started with something other than a jump ball? None.

Damn. chseagle has got me so worked up that I'm starting to lie. After re-reading my previous post, I discovered that, as the politicians say, "I misspoke". I did start a game once, a boys recreation league game, with a few free throws. After being politely reminded to stay off the rim, a kid threw one down to show off. So I responded appropriately.

[chseagle]

IOW in that game the T was due to a player showboating (a deserving Technical for displaying unsporting behavior).

Didn't mean to get you that worked up.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Damn. chseagle has got me so worked up that I'm starting to lie. After re-reading my previous post, I discovered that, as the politicians say, "I misspoke". I did start game once, a boys recreation league game, with a few free throws. After being politely reminded to stay off the rim, a kid threw one down to show off. So I responded appropriately.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Unfortunately different people see the purpose & intent differently

Fortunately the people that count...the officials responsible for administering the rules...know the correct purpose and intent of the rule they are administering. Unfortunately though, some clueless timers won't accept that fact. Also unfortunately, those same clueless timers can't get through their thick heads that they have NOTHING to do with officiating the game. It doesn't matter one bit if any timer sees the purpose and intent of a rule differently than an official. The bottom line is that you don't get a vote. And if you want a say, well, you'd better know your audience. A lot of officials will simply tell the AD to get 'em a timer that knows enough to just time. I'm one of them.

Iow stick to what you're supposed to do and let us do what we're supposed to do.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Like I stated it was my understanding of the rules, as I am used to the rosters having to be in the scorebook by the 10:00 minute mark, not just a printed list outside the scorebook.

Think about this for just a moment; you're saying the coaches are to be held responsible for the inaction of the scorer.

Sitch: Coaches both provide rosters to the scorer at the 15:00 mark. Right after getting the home team entered, the scorer has to go to the bathroom. He returns at the 9:00 mark and completes the book. Your understanding would have a T called on the Visitors here?

It's easier for us if it's in the book at 10, but we can't call a T here if the coach has done his job.

[biggravy]

I guess I am less tolerant as well. The administrator would be putting a sub at the table. No way I am continuing in that spot w/o him/her gone.

Chseagle, people are explaining things just great. You however have a lack of simple comprehension. This is a forum for REFEREES. People who wear striped shirts and whistles. You fail to comprehend that. You want to discuss your duties and all the authority you exude. We don't care. You are a T-I-M-E-R, not a R-E-F-E-R-E-E. You fail to understand that. Somehow, people reply to your trolling and actually discuss rules with you. They explain the rules and your duties to you. You fail to understand that. Finally, it has become painfully obvious that you have some kind of authority complex. You are hung up on not only officiating, but security and anything else that puts you in a position of power over people. You are a timer. You have no authority. Even if you did, authority will never make people respect you. Anyway, officiating basketball is not about authority. It is just about being a part of an educational experience for high school students. Since you want control over people, go start a cult. My Christmas wish is to see you banned from this forum, and I would suggest some psychological help to deal with your authority issues.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I'm used to the fact that 10-1-1 means all names/numbers are listed in the scorebook, as that is what I am used to is all I was getting at.

Sigh.

It's not what we don't know that gets us in trouble, it's what we know for sure that just ain't so.

What you should have said about 4 posts ago was, "Thanks. I had a misconception on the rule, but now I understand."

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by biggravy

I guess I am less tolerant as well. The administrator would be putting a sub at the table. No way I am continuing in that spot w/o him/her gone.

"I explained the problem and asked him if he had another ECO. He said no but asked if he could talk to him and take care of the problem."

So you're going to refuse to rstart the game? You're going to forfeit the game? You're going to leave and go home?

[26 Year Gap]

Last year, a visiting club had provided the roster of names and numbers to the scorer at the prescribed time. The home scorer started complaining loudly that the visitors had not provided all of the information so she could enter it in the book. She got the home coach involved, who I discovered a few weeks ago was her husband. A shouting match ensued at which time I told them that the roster had been provided and that there would be no technical foul. Adversarial lines had been drawn in the sand and when the scorer missed a FT by the visitors it escalated. Eventually, the visitors coach was escorted out of the gym after going to the table and accusing the scorer of cheating.

IF, the scorer had kept her mouth shut and simply asked the referee what was required, it is likely that the situation would not have escalated. What rule does the scorer need to know? Rule 2-11. Nowhere does it speak of advising the HC or inciting the crowd. 2-11-2 was met and that is the end of it.

Rule 2-12 is for the timer. If the referee or umpire[s] want additional input that is not outlined in those two rules, it will be asked for by the referee or umpire[s].

Eagleboy, you may think you are smarter than a 5th grader, but when one or more of the long time officials gives an answer and you argue the point, it shows that the 5th grader is capable of gaining knowledge and you are not. Only if I were in Key West, would I be further away from having to tolerate your work at the table. For that, I am thankful.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by biggravy

We don't care. You are a timer, not a referee. My Christmas wish is to see you banned from this forum.

Not everyone shares this opinion. I for one, do appreciate that we have table personnel, like SCalScoreKeeper, and chseagle, posting on the Forum. They certainly are an important part of the game, although not as important as chseagle thinks, and I believe that they can contribute a lot to this Forum. They can certainly provide a different perspective, much different than the officials, coaches, and fanboys that post here.

Now, that being said. chseagle: Please shut your mouth, and open your ears.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not everyone shares this opinion. I for one, do appreciate that we have table personnel, like SCalScoreKeeper, and chseagle, posting on the Forum. They certainly are an important part of the game, although not as important as chseagle thinks, and I believe that they can contribute a lot to this Forum. They can certainly provide a different perspective, much different than the officials, coaches, and fanboys that post here.

Now, that being said. chseagle: Please shut your mouth, and open your ears.

Several months ago I posed a suggestion that we take up a collection to fund a website to host the official timekeeper/scorer/crowd control discussion on a server in Borneo. Naturally, Timerguy would be the admin and charter member.
Donations accepted by [email protected].
Give til it hurts!

[comical]

A few years ago I left a visiting player's name and number out of the book and didn't realize it until after the game had started (the visitors didn't have anyone at the table with a book). I usually have a coach from the visiting school check the book but for some reason didn't that night (I don't remember why).

I didn't say anything to anybody, just added the player's name and number to the book. It was my mistake and I just fixed it. That might not have been the way to handle it, but that's what I did.

[biggravy]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

"I explained the problem and asked him if he had another ECO. He said no but asked if he could talk to him and take care of the problem."

So you're going to refuse to rstart the game? You're going to forfeit the game? You're going to leave and go home?

Just don't think I would have 'explained the problem'. I would have said "he/she needs to go."

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by comical

A few years ago I left a visiting player's name and number out of the book and didn't realize it until after the game had started (the visitors didn't have anyone at the table with a book). I usually have a coach from the visiting school check the book but for some reason didn't that night (I don't remember why).

I didn't say anything to anybody, just added the player's name and number to the book. It was my mistake and I just fixed it. That might not have been the way to handle it, but that's what I did.

As the R, I check the book prior to the game and put a line under the last players name, so that shouldn't be able to happen without being noticeable.

That being said, I've never personally had to go back and check a book. Hmm....

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by biggravy

Just don't think I would have 'explained the problem'. I would have said "he/she needs to go."

I like to think that I have better people skills than that. In that situation, you can't make the principal replace the timer if he doesn't have a competent replacement. Putting someone on the clock that doesn't know what he's doing just makes a bad situation worse. I worked with the principal and found a solution that enabled us to finish both games. In the end, he thanked me and we left the school on good terms.

Your way is pretty arrogant. You're telling him to replace him or else. It would be stupid to back yourself in a corner like that. That type of arrogance isn't going to help the situation.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Hello All,
I appreciate the sentiment and welcoming nature of the members of this board.When I first joined you all made me (even as a scorekeeper) feel incredibly welcome to participate.I came here as a professional development tool to gain a better understanding of the game and feel as if you all have helped me succeed in that regard and have enjoyed the humor from our senior members. Through this board I have gained an entirely new respect for what you all do night in and night out.

Sincerely,
Derryl Trujillo (Official Scorekeeper Woodcrest Christian Varsity Boys/Girls Basketball-Riverside,CA)