I think chseagle was my timer tonight

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Don't worry Chseagle, some guys on here may say it is the student, but I think many are pretty lousy teachers! Hang in there and keep asking questions. If they don't like it hopefully they can resist the temptation to treat you in a in such a rude way.

I'm sure I'll take some heat for posting this, but I think someone needed to stand up for someone else on here! I know this site has been extremely valuable for me and has taught me a ton, and I'm very thankful for the years and years of experience that these guys have and all that they are willing to pass on. I only wish that some could do it in a more constructive and less degrading manner.

The guy won't listen. He won't accept answers & explanations from veterans with far more knowledge than I. He is constantly second guessing. He is a Yabut of the nth degree and deserves every bit of stick that comes his way.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Concerning using a Sub-V Timer in place of the replaced V Timer, they would already have some training/experience, instead of bringing in someone that has not done table.

they might, but BktBallRef's point is that it's up to the school and not up to the officials. Maybe the school has a reason for keeping the sub-V timer at the sub-v level (for example, maybe he's a PITA who is always trying to overstep his bounds; maybe the school is worried that the school will have to replace a second timer if the sub-V timer is promoted.)

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

The guy won't listen. He won't accept answers & explanations from veterans with far more knowledge than I. He is constantly second guessing. He is a Yabut of the nth degree and deserves every bit of stick that comes his way.

Well said. Even as a neophyte basketball official, I am willing to help others with less knowledge. There comes a point though where this becomes a fruitless endeavor.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by 26 year gap

the guy won't listen. He won't accept answers & explanations from veterans with far more knowledge than i. He is constantly second guessing. He is a yabut of the nth degree and deserves every bit of stick that comes his way.

+100

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

they might, but BktBallRef's point is that it's up to the school and not up to the officials. Maybe the school has a reason for keeping the sub-V timer at the sub-v level (for example, maybe he's a PITA who is always trying to overstep his bounds; maybe the school is worried that the school will have to replace a second timer if the sub-V timer is promoted.)

Good points all around, bob.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I believed you on the rule citation, I was just quoting the exact rule number for everyone's reference.

Concerning using a Sub-V Timer in place of the replaced V Timer, they would already have some training/experience, instead of bringing in someone that has not done table.

Again, that's not my concern or anything that I would have knowledge about. You need to find the forum that the principal or AD post on and ask them that question. Or I can get the prinicapl's email addy and you can email him.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Don't worry Chseagle, some guys on here may say it is the student, but I think many are pretty lousy teachers! Hang in there and keep asking questions. If they don't like it hopefully they can resist the temptation to treat you in a in such a rude way.

I'm sure I'll take some heat for posting this, but I think someone needed to stand up for someone else on here! I know this site has been extremely valuable for me and has taught me a ton, and I'm very thankful for the years and years of experience that these guys have and all that they are willing to pass on. I only wish that some could do it in a more constructive and less degrading manner.

Upon further review....

You're right. Maybe we could try to be a little bit more tolerant...including myself (hard as it might be sometimes ).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Upon further review. You're right. Maybe we could try to be a little bit more tolerant, including myself, hard as it might be sometimes.

Alright. What have you done with the real Jurassic Referee and how much ransom do you want to keep him?

[chseagle]

What I am meaning by the using of the Sub-V timer is that they can be used as a back-up/alternate as long as they have the appropriate training/experience in case either the V Timer is relieved of duties or does not show up due to illness/other reasons.

I can only imagine last year, what might of happened had neither my wife or I been there with the V Timer not showing up due to illness. As far I know, there are not many trained to operate the scoreboard or are comfortable running the scoreboard during Varsity level games.

Concerning shot clock operations, I & my wife have been training my father. however he does not feel comfortable at all with doing Varsity Level games (even after doing shot clock at the Sub-V level for the past couple of years). If the need arose where he had to do Varsity shot clock, he'd just have to remember everything that he was taught & do all he can to blank out the crowd noise & focus on the action on the court alone.

I realize I have in the past complained about wishing I was V Timer all the time, however I now realize that if I am needed as V Timer I will be asked to assist if the need arises.

Just like the postings about officials doing only Varsity games & wanting to work only those games, the same can be said for table crew that you shouldn't be content with just doing Varsity level games, but also be willing to do the Sub-V games. Same can be said for those doing only Sub-V games, expect that sooner or later, you'll be asked to do Varsity games.

There is no need for the principal's or AD's e-mail for CHS as that is one of the many methods I am using to communicate with them.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Again, that's not my concern or anything that I would have knowledge about. You need to find the forum that the principal or AD post on and ask them that question. Or I can get the prinicapl's email addy and you can email him.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by chseagle

What I am meaning by the using of the Sub-V timer is that they can be used as a back-up/alternate as long as they have the appropriate training/experience in case either the V Timer is relieved of duties or does not show up due to illness/other reasons.

Seriously, for the game clock, I can teach any half-way intelligent person that has watched any decent amount of basketball how to run the necessary parts of most clock systems in about 5 minutes.

The #1 thing they need to know is to stop the clock when they hear a whistle and, when the clock is stopped, find an official with their arm raised and start the clock when that official chops in time. There is usually one switch that does that for them (sometimes two buttons...start/stop).

They will need to know how to add points to either team (and take them off if they get it wrong). A lot of modern boards have 4 buttons for each team: +1, +2, +3, and -1. Not exactly rocket science.

That is IT. Forget the rest.

They can get help in resetting the time for the next quarter or resetting the time in case of an error. We can depend on the scorekeeper for the foul counts. Fouls on the board is just a nice-to-have. They really don't need to know how to program the board to calculate their taxes.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Seriously, for the game clock, I can teach any half-way intelligent person that has watched any decent amount of basketball how to run the necessary parts of most clock systems in about 5 minutes.

The #1 thing they need to know is to stop the clock when they hear a whistle and, when the clock is stopped, find an official with their arm raised and start the clock when that official chops in time. There is usually one switch that does that for them (sometimes two buttons...start/stop).

They will need to know how to add points to either team (and take them off if they get it wrong). A lot of modern boards have 4 buttons for each team: +1, +2, +3, and -1. Not exactly rocket science.

That is IT. Forget the rest.

They can get help in resetting the time for the next quarter or resetting the time in case of an error. We can depend on the scorekeeper for the foul counts. Fouls on the board is just a nice-to-have. They really don't need to know how to program the board to calculate their taxes.

To add to what Camron said, most any experienced official can walk over to the table and in a few seconds reset the time if needed- even though we're looking at it upside down.

I've done as Camron described - taken a student with no experience and taught them the essentials in 5 minutes or less and they did a great job. It just isn't that difficult......

[chseagle]

I wasn't saying anything about it being hard.

Depending on the game, a person can become nervous or unsure of themselves if certain situations are presented. Especially if they have no prior experience & are being trained on the spot.

The first varsity games where I was timer was during the 4A Regionals back in February 2009, although I had been doing Girls' Varsity shot clock throughout the year.

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

To add to what Camron said, most any experienced official can walk over to the table and in a few seconds reset the time if needed- even though we're looking at it upside down.

I've done as Camron described - taken a student with no experience and taught them the essentials in 5 minutes or less and they did a great job. It just isn't that difficult......

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by chseagle

What I am meaning by the using of the Sub-V timer is that they can be used as a back-up/alternate as long as they have the appropriate training/experience in case either the V Timer is relieved of duties or does not show up due to illness/other reasons.

Again chseagle, I don't know what the school's plans are nor is it my concern. I asked the principal if he had anyone else capable of running the clock and he said know. The timer in question worked all 4 games last Friday night.

There is no need for the principal's or AD's e-mail for CHS as that is one of the many methods I am using to communicate with them.

I was referring to the administrators at the HS where I had the issue, that you keep asking whether they had a sub-V timer or not.

[chseagle]

I was meaning in general, not just the school in question.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Again chseagle, I don't know what the school's plans are nor is it my concern. I asked the principal if he had anyone else capable of running the clock and he said know. The timer in question worked all 4 games last Friday night.



I was referring to the administrators at the HS where I had the issue, that you keep asking whether they had a sub-V timer or not.

Sorry if I lived in North Carolina having that information might help, however I live across the country so not helpful

If I knew which school it was I could look it up

[TimTaylor]

Sigh....

B.I.T.S. - I think you need a bigger clue by four.......