Coach was an official

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

IOW He'd ask why the call was missed & make suggestions as to positioning, so the call won't be missed next time or

Not to me he wouldn't. Not acceptable. Nor would I allow him to do it to a rookie partner.

Originally Posted by chseagle

comment to his team about the missed call & what needs to be done differently to make sure that call doesn't happen.

He'd need to tread lightly. What I hear there is a coach trying to talk to the refs through his players. I will not be coached while I'm on the court. He's working the officials, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by chseagle

For crowd numbers we only had about 30 people watching in the stands.

Snaq, I do see where you're coming from concerning the conduct though.

The number of fans isn't relevant. He's condescending to the officials, and that's not appropriate.

Just because these officials accepted it doesn't mean anything either.

[26 Year Gap]

Which is worse? A timer with a rule book? Or a coach who was never an official?

[chseagle]

Must of been really thick-skinned.

Like I stated in another thread, the crew for the game was 2-person, so one of the officials also worked the V 3-person crew, as only 4 officials showed up for 3 games.

Before V game started he alerted his partners about the C-Squad coach & did not hear any of the comments like I did during the C-Squad game.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Just because these officials accepted it doesn't mean anything either.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Maybe we need a poll.

Maybe we need a pole - with a hot mom dancer on it.

[chseagle]

I just had the rule book with me as a reference or in case had a problem with a fan or coach.

Same thing with the printouts I have with me.

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Which is worse? A timer with a rule book? Or a coach who was never an official?

[chseagle]

Just like in the movie BaseKETball.

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Maybe we need a pole - with a hot mom dancer on it.

[CaRef5]

what about an official who used to play and coach?!??!

oh oh and scorekeep too

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

IOW He'd ask why the call was missed & make suggestions as to positioning, so the call won't be missed next time or comment to his team about the missed call & what needs to be done differently to make sure that call doesn't happen.

There is no way a coach is going to be making suggestions to me as to positioning. If the coach wants to be an evaluator/mentor, then he needs to join the local association and do just that. I'm sure the coach doesn't want me to be giving him suggestions as to coaching strategies, so I don't want him to try the same with me and officiating.

[rockyroad]

A little bit different spin on this topic...I drove about 2 hours to a small town last night to watch my HS son play. When I get there, I am the only parent/fan from our school who made the drive - long drive, raining like crazy, etc., etc. So our scorekeeper didn't show up. Coach asks me if I will do the book for him and I agree and move over to the table. The 3 officials walk in and I know two of them from camps where I have been a clinician.

In the second quarter, we have a correctable error - my sons' team should have shot bonus on 7th foul, both the home book and I signaled one-and-one with our hands and then started yelling at them - they put the ball in play, and then have to hit whistles because the horn is blowing and we are yelling...anyway, they get together and talk for a bit, and then walk over to the table and ask me what they are supposed to do!

I first tell them they shouldn't be asking me, but they say they really don't know what to do and need my help...so I tell them it's not too late to correct and they should line them up and shoot the bonus and play on from there. So they start to do that and home coach gets really agitated and wants to know why they are listening to some scorekeeper...

All ends up fine, but sometimes it pays to have an extra official around.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

A little bit different spin on this topic...I drove about 2 hours to a small town last night to watch my HS son play. When I get there, I am the only parent/fan from our school who made the drive - long drive, raining like crazy, etc., etc. So our scorekeeper didn't show up. Coach asks me if I will do the book for him and I agree and move over to the table. The 3 officials walk in and I know two of them from camps where I have been a clinician.

In the second quarter, we have a correctable error - my sons' team should have shot bonus on 7th foul, both the home book and I signaled one-and-one with our hands and then started yelling at them - they put the ball in play, and then have to hit whistles because the horn is blowing and we are yelling...anyway, they get together and talk for a bit, and then walk over to the table and ask me what they are supposed to do!

I first tell them I am no chseagle, but they say they really don't know what to do and need my help...so I tell them it's not too late to correct and they should line them up and shoot the bonus and play on from there. So they start to do that and home coach gets really agitated and wants to know why they are listening to some scorekeeper...

All ends up fine, but sometimes it pays to have an extra official around.

All fixed nice and shiny like.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

All fixed nice and shiny like.

ROFL...thanks.

Love the Serenity reference!

[refnrev]

The five words I hate to hear before every game, in any sport...."I am an official, too." I cringe at the sound of them.
Facts: Just because you were a good player does not mean you will be a good referee. Just because you were a good coach does not mean you will be a good referee. Just because you have a license and a striped shirt does not man you will be a good referee.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Has this Tuesday night: The V C-Squad coach stated that before he became a coach he was an official for 10 years.

During the game, his team only had 5 fouls compared to the home team having 15 fouls.

Which is better: a coach that was an official or an official that was a coach?

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The answer depends solely on the individual.

The most accurate answer thus far, from my perspective. As my board name suggests, I have done both.

I find that many referees make bad coaches as they frequently know the rules, but not the Xs and Os. They tend to focus more on US in those cases because they know reffing better than the Xs and Os. But, there are exceptions that know the the Xs and Os very well. In those cases, they don't have much time for US.

I think that coaches tend to make good referees because they can relate to the challenges the coaches face. At the same time, sometimes, coaches-turned-referees tend to worry too much about the type of offense or defense a team is running (and why) and fail to focus on off-the-ball responsibilities (most coaches "ball watch" as coaches and many tend to continue that habit when starting to referee).

Bottom line is, JR is right. It really just depends on the individual -- and, to some extent their experience level in each.

[Judtech]

MARK - I'll bring the $$$!!

As someone who resembles this remark, I think I can speak on it with some real life experience.
For starters, I don't tell the officials that I AM an official. Some/most of them know me, and if they don't, I am not sure how much it matters. Of course, if there is a 'bad' call my wife is in the annoying habit of informing the unknowning officials that I am one. (I ask her to stop, but you can't tell women ANYTHING!)
IMO, most coaches who also officiate forget that once they are on the bench they are no longer an unbiased observer. I realize that I have a bias on the bench and act accordingly. IF there is a rules issue or something, I will inform the Head Coach. I will give my wife "language of art" to use if she is talking to officials to be 'heard'. And if she asks my opinion on a call I will give it to her. (Usually, I say it was a good call) What I don't do is yell at officials, mentor them or anything. I will make jokes with them and even compliment calls that may have gone against us if I am friends with them. (ie. How can you expect us to win if you keep making good calls like that)
Most official/coaches I run into during the summer. I don't know if it is the weather or what, but they are the ones who give the most grief. I actually tossed a coach who I later found out was a big wig D1 men's official during an AAU Tournament. I had another one tell me it is a good thing my supervisor isn't here to watch this game b/c I would not be working, to which I responded it is a good thing (Insert Name of Observer) isn't here to see how you act as a coach! didn't hear much from them after that.
The bottom line IMO, is that these people feel that since they theoretically have a concept of the rules, their criticism should count more then a "regular" coach. But again, once you sit on the bench you lose your unbias view of the contest.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Which is better: a coach that was an official or an official that was a coach?

I don't know, but I have seen several people that try to do both at the same time...no matter what shirt they are wearing!