Timeout/Layup = technical foul

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

For your information, I'm not talking about Marlo Thomas' boyfriend, Donald Hollinger.



On a written rules exam, this is correct. Can't practice during dead balls, except pregame, and at halftime.

That being said. I guess that he wants to be "that guy". I never want to "that guy" again. Once was enough (punched ball, not in a crowd).

About thirty years ago we had a college game between two small colleges. Team A wins by one at the buzzer. A1 dunks the ball to celebrate, right in front of the officials. Technical foul for dunking a dead ball. Team B went on to win. All over the news. I don't do college ball, but nevertheless, I never want to be "that guy".

Man, did I have a thing for Marlo Thomas. She, along with Sally Field, Annette Funicello and Cheryl Gervais (a girl in my 9th grade class) guaranteed I would marry a brunette.

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NFHS 2-7-4: The officials shall conduct the game in accordance with the rules.

?? How else would we do it?

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Your right. It doesn't state it directly. I was confusing a dunk with practicing. How foolish of me.

NFHS 2-7-4: The officials shall conduct the game in accordance with the rules. This includes: Prohibiting practice during a dead ball, except between halves.

NFHS 10-3-3: A player shall not: Grasp either basket at any time during the game except to prevent
injury; dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball.

This may be a stretch:

NFHS 10-3-5: A player shall not: Delay the game by acts such as:
Failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer
official when a whistle blows.

I'd 2-7-4 and 10-3-5 would suffice to cover which "rule" was being violated.

HOWEVER, in this scenario, how do we know that the nearest official wasn't standing under the basket thus the player was justified in executing the lay up?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If the player travels the length of the court, by-passing one or more officials along the way, and shoots a layup before heading to his bench, it could easily be considered delaying the game.

How?? The game is stopped for the next 30 or 60 seconds. Nothing is going to happen anyway. So how he delaying anything?

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

How?? The game is stopped for the next 30 or 60 seconds. Nothing is going to happen anyway. So how he delaying anything?

The inevitable?

[VaTerp]

IMHO it's absolutely HORRENDOUS judgment and unjustifiable to call a technical foul in the situation as described in the original post.

It's calls like that that give officials a bad name and fuels the misguided perception some have that officials are out of touch and take away from the game.

I can see a T in the case someone else described where a guy jacks a shot that goes under the bleachers or something and refuses to go get it after repeated request. But in the situation described, any official who would issue a T or even begin to justify a T, is not someone I would want to work with and someone who truly DOES NOT GET IT.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

How?? The game is stopped for the next 30 or 60 seconds. Nothing is going to happen anyway. So how he delaying anything?

So why not let him shoot around for the next 30 or 60 seconds?

This action is illegal. BillyMac quoted the proper rule about failing to pass the ball to the nearer official when it becomes dead. The proper penalty is a player technical foul for delaying the game. If you want to know exactly how, I would admit that is a tough explanation, but consider a two person crew. One official should be reporting the time-out and the other should be collecting the ball and heading to the ensuing throw-in spot. The coach of one of the teams may want to know this location before going into his huddle and drawing up a play. What if the player shooting the lay-up is from the other team and now this coach can't get his desired info in a timely manner because the official has to go collect the ball?

There was a POE or comment on this a few years ago when the editorial change was made in the language of this rule. I recall the NFHS making the point to not allow such behavior after the whistle.

My vote is WHACK.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

IMHO it's absolutely HORRENDOUS judgment and unjustifiable to call a technical foul in the situation as described in the original post.

It's calls like that that give officials a bad name and fuels the misguided perception some have that officials are out of touch and take away from the game.

I can see a T in the case someone else described where a guy jacks a shot that goes under the bleachers or something and refuses to go get it after repeated request. But in the situation described, any official who would issue a T or even begin to justify a T, is not someone I would want to work with and someone who truly DOES NOT GET IT.

Let me see if I can reply in like language.

Anyone who holds your opinion is not a REAL official just a fanboy or ex-coach who puts on a shirt and pretends. The official should not consider "the situation" and is not taking the game away from anyone. The misbehaving player is doing that. The REAL official properly does his job and penalizes such action with impartiality.

You are the one who gives officials a bad name.


How was that? Did you like those words?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Let me see if I can reply in like language.

Anyone who holds your opinion is not a REAL official just a fanboy or ex-coach who puts on a shirt and pretends. The official should not consider "the situation" and is not taking the game away from anyone. The misbehaving player is doing that. The REAL official properly does his job and penalizes such action with impartiality.

You are the one who gives officials a bad name.


How was that? Did you like those words?

How's that? Do I like those words?

Ok tough guy, I'm not going there with you. I stand by my humble opinion. I've been a sports fan (not a fan boy or whatever that is) since I was 4, and yes I use to coach, but guess what? I am a "REAL" official. I couldn't care less what you say about that.

If you don't think officials should "consider the situation" you're fooling yourself. That's called LIFE. In the situation the OP described giving a T takes the game away from the players and coaches and puts it on a POOR JUDGMENT call from an official. PERIOD.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

This may be a stretch:

NFHS 10-3-5: A player shall not: Delay the game by acts such as:
Failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer
official when a whistle blows.

I don't think that rule is applicable in the OP's sitch.

A time out is called. On the way to the bench, a player makes a lay-up. Is he delaying the game? That time-out is going to last 30 or 60 seconds regardless of the layup. If that player is delaying anything, it's a second or two of his own time at his bench, but that time-out will expire on time nonetheless.

Originally Posted by VaTerp

In the situation the OP described giving a T takes the game away from the players and coaches and puts it on a POOR JUDGMENT call from an official.

Poor judgment? Maybe. Still, I've come to believe that "taking the game away" concept is myopic. A single play never, ever decides a basketball game. The collection of plays over 32, 40, or 48 minutes (overtime notwithstanding) determines the winner. To say a single play determines an outcome is to negate all the other work that players, coaches, and officials put into that game.

Can a single play loom larger in a close game? Certainly. Will people be more likely to remember a single, closing-minutes play or call? Naturally. Will a single play unilaterally decide a basketball game? Never. Realistically, it's always about the collection. I believe that's all too easily forgotten.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MelbRef

Would you call a technical for the layup?

He!! to the..................... nnnnaaaaaaawwwww!!!!

Silly interpretation if someone wants to do that. If you do not like him doing it, tell him to knock it off. Problem solved and no one knows you are a silly person. Terrible ruling IMHO.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by jrutledge

he!! To the..................... Nnnnaaaaaaawwwww!!!!

Silly interpretation if someone wants to do that. If you do not like him doing it, tell him to knock it off. Problem solved and no one knows you are a silly person. Terrible ruling imho.

Peace

+1

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1)There was a POE or comment on this a few years ago when the editorial change was made in the language of this rule. I recall the NFHS making the point to not allow such behavior after the whistle.

2) My vote is WHACK.

1) I just opened up the 2000-01 rule book and the language was exactly the same. And I can't remember anything ever being issued about practicing during dead balls either. Can you furnish a cite to back this up? Including exactly what the NFHS said the penalty should be for not allowing such behavior after the whistle?

2) Gee, why aren't I surprised? It falls right in line with your insistence on it being OK to "T" up the crowd also if you feel like it, doesn't it?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

A time out is called. On the way to the bench, a player makes a lay-up. Is he delaying the game? That time-out is going to last 30 or 60 seconds regardless of the layup. If that player is delaying anything, it's a second or two of his own time at his bench, but that time-out will expire on time nonetheless.

Don't get carried away with the "delaying the game" concept, bainsey. The rule doesn't mention that. It simply says that we should prohibit practice during a dead ball. Sooooooo....if a player makes a lay-up on the way to the bench, prohibit him from practicing- just like the rule book says. What the rule book doesn't state is that there is a specific penalty to be applied accompanying the prohibition of practicing.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NFHS 2-7-4: The officials shall conduct the game in accordance with the rules.

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

How else would we do it?

NFHS 2-7-4 is also known as the "Tim Donaghy Rule".