Timeout/Layup = technical foul

[MelbRef]

My partner shared a game-end snafu situation with me last night. His partners at his game all had a different opinion on how best to handle it. Thought I would share...

5 seconds left in game, Team A up by three with the ball, Team B fouls to stop the clock (no bonus). Team B coach calls timeout.

Here's where it gets interesting:

Team A player (guy who got fouled) casually dribbles to basket and takes a layup on the way to the bench for timeout.

R calls technical foul.

Then...Team B makes one of two technical free throws, gets the throw-in at halfcourt , and makes a game winning 3-point shot to win the game.

Team A coach goes ape, throws clipboard, whole 9 yards.

Would you call a technical for the layup?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mulberry

Team A player casually dribbles to basket and takes a layup on the way to the bench for timeout. R calls technical foul. Would you call a technical for the layup?

For your information, I'm not talking about Marlo Thomas' boyfriend, Donald Hollinger.



On a written rules exam, this is correct. Can't practice during dead balls, except pregame, and at halftime.

That being said. I guess that he wants to be "that guy". I never want to "that guy" again. Once was enough (punched ball, not in a crowd).

About thirty years ago we had a college game between two small colleges. Team A wins by one at the buzzer. A1 dunks the ball to celebrate, right in front of the officials. Technical foul for dunking a dead ball. Team B went on to win. All over the news. I don't do college ball, but nevertheless, I never want to be "that guy".

[Jeremy Hohn]

What is that old saying, "don't do anything to make them remember you?" I think that applies big time here. The best compliment we can recieve as officials is to not be even noticed.

[APG]

Nope, I'm not making this call.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

On a written rules exam,this is correct. Can't practice during dead balls, except pregame, and at halftime.

Oh?

Maybe on an IAABO exam.....

Can you find me a rules citation anywhere that states it is a "T" for practicing during a dead ball?

There's no penalty listed 2-7-4. It's a "don't do that". Maybe you're confusing that with dunking a dead ball. That is a "T".

[JugglingReferee]

Let's say that this player wanted to practice foul shots during the timeout. We're certainly not going to allow that. Nor would I allow a layup either.

I have no problems whatsoever with issuing a technical foul for the layup.

However, for me, the first time is a reminder of the rule.

That's the guy that I'd be.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Let's say that this player wanted to practice foul shots during the timeout. We're certainly not going to allow that. Nor would I allow a layup either.

I have no problems whatsoever with issuing a technical foul for the layup.

However, for me, the first time is a reminder of the rule.

That's the guy that I'd be.

You have no rules justification to issue a technical foul. It's that simple.

Doing something like that cannot be explained away if somebody complains either.

Absolutely ridiculous advice.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You have no rules justification to issue a technical foul. It's that simple.

Doing something like that cannot be explained away if somebody complains either.

Absolutely ridiculous advice.

Again, you did not read what I wrote.

Here it is again:

"However, for me, the first time is a reminder of the rule."

A reminder is a warning. That means that my call is no direct call to a Technical foul. For you to read into what I said that I would issue a T without a warning is inappropriate. Please don't put words into my mouth.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Can you find me a rules citation anywhere that states it is a "T" for practicing during a dead ball?

Your right. It doesn't state it directly. I was confusing a dunk with practicing. How foolish of me.

NFHS 2-7-4: The officials shall conduct the game in accordance with the rules. This includes: Prohibiting practice during a dead ball, except between halves.

NFHS 10-3-3: A player shall not: Grasp either basket at any time during the game except to prevent
injury; dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball.

This may be a stretch:

NFHS 10-3-5: A player shall not: Delay the game by acts such as:
Failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer
official when a whistle blows.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Let's say that this player wanted to practice foul shots during the timeout. We're certainly not going to allow that. Nor would I allow a layup either.

I have no problems whatsoever with issuing a technical foul for the layup.

You have no problems issuing a technical foul for the lay-up? That is what you wrote, Juggler, and that is what I commented on.

I don't know how you think I'm mis-reading that sentence. I sureasheck have problems issuing a technical foul for the lay-up. That's because there isn't any rule I can hang my whistle on to do so.

Please tell me how I'm mis-reading a statement like that?

Or are you really agreeing that a "T" can't be immediately called without a warning being issued first? It's gotta be one or the other. If so, we then do agree and I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Your turn.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

This may be a stretch:

NFHS 10-3-5: A player shall not: Delay the game by acts such as:
Failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer
official when a whistle blows.

And it's a stretch because imo if the rulesmakers wanted to to identify this as a specific delay of game problem, they would have done so by either including it as one of the DOG warnings or adressed it directly as they did on a play like a defender touching the ball OOB on a throw-in while the thrower is holding it.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You have no problems issuing a technical foul for the lay-up? That is what you wrote, Juggler, and that is what I commented on.

I don't know how you think I'm mis-reading that sentence. I sureasheck have problems issuing a technical foul for the lay-up. That's because there isn't any rule I can hang my whistle on to do so.

Please tell me how I'm mis-reading a statement like that?

Or are you really agreeing that a "T" can't be immediately called without a warning being issued first? It's gotta be one or the other. If so, we then do agree and I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Your turn.

Go ahead and comment on everything I said, including my ruling.

Then get back to me.

Lah me.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

However, for me, the first time is a reminder of the rule.

A reminder of which rule in particular????

And the implication in your statement is that if they do it again, you will issue a T.

So which rule are you going to remind them of after the first lay-up?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And it's a stretch because imo if the rulesmakers wanted to to identify this as a specific delay of game problem, they would have done so by either including it as one of the DOG warnings or adressed it directly as they did on a play like a defender touching the ball OOB on a throw-in while the thrower is holding it.

More to the point, however. . . How is this "practice" lay-up delaying the game?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

More to the point, however. . . How is this "practice" lay-up delaying the game?

If the player travels the length of the court, by-passing one or more officials along the way, and shoots a layup before heading to his bench, it could easily be considered delaying the game.

Had a partner call a T last year when, following the granting of a timeout, A1 (standing near that partner) launched a twenty foot shot then ended up heading to the bleachers. Partner gave him two chances to retrieve the ball and he refused.