shooting FT's when in bonus

[hawkeyegb]

so charge/illegal screens or anytime the offensive team has the ball and a pers foul is called on the offense we are not shooting at the other end?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by hawkeyegb

so charge/illegal screens or anytime the offensive team has the ball and a pers foul is called on the offense we are not shooting at the other end?

Correct

[Back In The Saddle]

That is correct. If the foul is committed by the player in control of the ball (a player-control foul) or by a player of the team in control of the ball (a team-control foul), we do not shoot free throws.

"The ball is awarded out of bounds after:...A player-control or team-control foul, as in 7-5-4a" (NFHS 7-4-5)

It's also important to note that, like mbyron said, during rebounding action there is no team control. So a foul by any member of the "shooting team" could result in free throws. Under NFHS rules the same is true during a throw-in, a foul by any member of the throwing team could result in free throws.

[bainsey]

It all comes down to the concept of control, Hawkeye. That is, team and/or player control. The best way to look at this is to understand the concept of control:

Team control BEGINS when a player holds or dribbles a live ball inbounds, or secures a jump ball with at least one foot on the floor. Obviously, player control exists when a player has control.

Player/team control ENDS when the ball is released on a try/tap for goal, an opponent controls the ball, or the ball is dead. If the ball is loose, team control still exists (obviously by the last team that controlled it), unless there was a try for goal.

And yes, whenever there is a player control or team control foul, there are no free throws. If the non-controlling team fouls, or there's no team control at all, free throws can happen.

[Adam]

Throw-ins.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Throw-ins.

In NFHS, there is no team control in those situations. So, technically, there is no offense until a throw-in is completed. Thus, there would be shots if the inbounding team fouled prior to the throw-in being completed if the other team was in the bonus.

[Back In The Saddle]

I think that was what he was implying, he was just uncharacteristically terse. He must've been in a hurry to get lunch.

BTW, there is no definition of "offense", and more particularly no rule that tells us who is on offense and when. That is what makes the term "offensive foul" so meaningless in an NFHS or NCAA rules context. Based purely on my understanding of the "general usage" of the word, I would say that the throwing team during a throw-in is "on offense." But, obviously, they do not have team control.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I think that was what he was implying, he was just uncharacteristically terse. He must've been in a hurry to get lunch.

BTW, there is no definition of "offense", and more particularly no rule that tells us who is on offense and when. That is what makes the term "offensive foul" so meaningless in an NFHS or NCAA rules context. Based purely on my understanding of the "general usage" of the word, I would say that the throwing team during a throw-in is "on offense." But, obviously, they do not have team control.

I was just being an agitator. My guess is that he just saw someone drive by in a pyrite-colored Scion and he got distracted.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I was just being an agitator. My guess is that he just saw someone drive by in a pyrite-colored Scion and he got distracted.

Squirrel!

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

In NFHS, there is no team control in those situations. So, technically, there is no offense until a throw-in is completed. Thus, there would be shots if the inbounding team fouled prior to the throw-in being completed if the other team was in the bonus.

Gap? Does the action that defines the end of the throw-in always result in team/player control being established? (Asking rhetorically)

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Gap? Does the action that defines the end of the throw-in always result in team/player control being established? (Asking rhetorically)

If it is legally completed, it does. A violation called before it is legally completed, a foul called before it is legally completed, and a held ball would be the only things that would not end in team control upon completion.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Gap? Does the action that defines the end of the throw-in always result in team/player control being established? (Asking rhetorically)

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

If it is legally completed, it does. A violation called before it is legally completed, a foul called before it is legally completed, and a held ball would be the only things that would not end in team control upon completion.

Maybe I'm reading his question differently, but I don't think that's right. A legal tip by either team would end the throw-in, but would not establish team control.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

If it is legally completed, it does. A violation called before it is legally completed, a foul called before it is legally completed, and a held ball would be the only things that would not end in team control upon completion.

Not true.

A2 (or B2) touching the ball ends the throw-in, but if that touch isn't also a catch, then PC (and thus TC) haven't been established.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Team control BEGINS when a player holds or dribbles a live ball inbounds, or secures a jump ball with at least one foot on the floor.

Huh?

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Team control BEGINS when a player holds or dribbles a live ball inbounds, or secures a jump ball with at least one foot on the floor.

Bainsey:Would you kindly supply a rules reference that includes this phrase?