The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 29, 2010, 11:31am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,474
Team Control timeout request

If you have officiated very long, this has likely happened to you:

Team A has the ball, A1 becomes trapped ... one second, two seconds, A1 still is trapped, three seconds, four seconds, A1 attempts a pass to A2 and pass is in the air...

Team A coach jumps up and requests time as the pass is released.

Your whistle goes off as you move to grant the timeout request ... just as Team B intercepts the pass.

Now what?

Somebody point me in the right direction for rules.
NFHS 5-8-3a seems to say a time out request can be made during TEAM control (which is present during the pass - see NFHS 4-12-2b).

You know Team B coach is gong to be screaming that his team has the ball and he wants that break-away lay-up.

This situation has happened to me more than once and I have always relied upon stating that the request was made before Team B gained control and my whistle was just a little bit slow.

I'm looking for rules justification because I (and you too, probably) have been posed with the following question, "...can only be granted a timeout when the ball is in player control or the ball is dead." T or F.

"Only" and "player" are the words that are bothering me. For the "only" statement to be True shouldn't it say "team" control?
__________________
"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 29, 2010, 11:46am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Time outs should be granted when a player has possession of the ball, not when the ball is being passed among teammates.

There are times when the request comes very close to the release of the ball (try/pass). I verbally say, "white time out before the release" & that generally keeps me out of trouble.
__________________
I gotta new attitude!

Last edited by tref; Mon Nov 29, 2010 at 11:49am.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 29, 2010, 11:48am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,839
If the ball is dead either team can be granted a time-out.

When the ball is live, only the team in possession (team control) can (should) be granted a time-out, but only if there is player control or the ball is at the requesting team's disposal.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR

Last edited by Raymond; Mon Nov 29, 2010 at 12:48pm.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 29, 2010, 11:48am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
By rule, once the pass is released, you cannot grant timeout because there's no player control.
If, however, you blow your whistle while the ball is in the air; grant the timeout and give the ball to A as they had team control when your whistle blew.
If you blow your whistle after B intercepted the pass, grant the TO and give the ball to B as they had control when your whistle blew.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 29, 2010, 11:49am
Lighten up, Francis.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,604
Quote:
Somebody point me in the right direction for rules.
NFHS 5-8-3a seems to say a time out request can be made during TEAM control (which is present during the pass - see NFHS 4-12-2b).
You might just need to read that rule again more carefully. It says the official can grant the time-out request when the ball is in control or at the disposal of a PLAYER on the requesting team. During a live ball, you need disposal or PLAYER control to grant the time-out.

So. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownTownTonyBrown View Post
Team A coach jumps up and requests time as the pass is released.

Your whistle goes off as you move to grant the timeout request ... just as Team B intercepts the pass.

Now what?
You grant the request, even though you should not have blown the whistle. After the time-out, you resume with a throw-in to the team that was in control, which is Team A at the out of bounds spot closest to where the pass was released before the whistle sounded.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 29, 2010, 12:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,474
Scrapper and others ...

Rule 5-8-3a says specifically:
Grant's a player's/head coach's oral or visual request for a time-out, such request being granted only when:
a. The ball is in control or at the disposal of a player of his/her team.

I now understand that this statement DOES NOT include team control. It specifically is player control and I feel should grammatically be re-written as "the ball is in control of a player, or at the disposal of a player, of his/her team."

And as such, a timeout should not be granted during the flight of a pass, despite TEAM control continuing during this flight time because there is no PLAYER control.
__________________
"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 29, 2010, 12:48pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by DownTownTonyBrown View Post
Scrapper and others ...

Rule 5-8-3a says specifically:
Grant's a player's/head coach's oral or visual request for a time-out, such request being granted only when:
a. The ball is in control or at the disposal of a player of his/her team.

I now understand that this statement DOES NOT include team control. It specifically is player control and I feel should grammatically be re-written as "the ball is in control of a player, or at the disposal of a player, of his/her team."

And as such, a timeout should not be granted during the flight of a pass, despite TEAM control continuing during this flight time because there is no PLAYER control.
Why does it need to be re-written? It covers the situations in which a time-out can be granted during a live ball.

Also, there is no Team Control on a throw-in but a time-out can be granted to the team whose player has the ball at his/her disposal.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 29, 2010, 12:49pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Why does it need to be re-written? It covers the situations in which a time-out can be granted during a live ball.

Also, there is no Team Control on a throw-in but a time-out can be granted to the team whose player has the ball at his/her disposal.
The re-write does nothing. It doesn't change the meaning, nor does it make it any more clear.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 29, 2010, 01:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,474
Well you boys must have better operating crystal balls than mine.

It doesn't change the intended meaning. Agreed.

I feel what I suggested does clarify that meaning.

But don't get your panties in a knot - you might drop your crystal ball.

Thanks for your help.
__________________
"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 29, 2010, 01:10pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
This is clearly a basketball fundamental.

"The official's whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead)." Fundamental #16.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 29, 2010, 01:29pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by DownTownTonyBrown View Post
Well you boys must have better operating crystal balls than mine.

It doesn't change the intended meaning. Agreed.

I feel what I suggested does clarify that meaning.

But don't get your panties in a knot - you might drop your crystal ball.

Thanks for your help.
If I had a crystal ball I'd be in Vegas.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 29, 2010, 06:07pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Coach Requesting Time-Out ...

UConn-Syracuse ends on questionable call - College Basketball Nation Blog - ESPN

Controversial timeout helps Syracuse past UConn - Sports Pros(e)

After the UCONN-Suyracuse debacle, we received the following in an email from our interpreter. It's on the agenda to be discussed at our meeting coming up Wednesday night.

Coach Requesting Time-Out

By now, I assume many have heard about or viewed the time-out granted in the recent UConn-Syracuse game. The NFHS rule book (Rule 5-8-3) and IAABO mechanics 2-person manual (Page 79) do not provide a level of specificity to guide how we officiate this request. While I have reviewed in past years, I will definitely add to next year's Interpretation meeting for our members and coaches.

Here is how we should officiate this:

Upon recognizing a request for a time-out by the head coach, the official must then check to see if a time-out request can be granted (Rule 5-8-3) ball is dead; ball is live and in possession of a thrower-in; player control exists) prior to granting (blowing the whistle) the time-out.

Thus, there will be situations when an official hears a request for a time-out but cannot grant it. Yes, coaches will not like to hear this and will get ticked when you do not grant the time-out. While many officials do not agree that coaches should call time-outs, I recognize that this rule will not change at high school or college level.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Nov 29, 2010 at 07:03pm.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 29, 2010, 06:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
[QUOTE=BillyMac;703842Here is how we should officiate this:

1) The official must see the head coach to confirm he/she is requesting the time-out.

2) ... You may not need to turn and view the coach. [/QUOTE]

Makes perfect sense.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 29, 2010, 06:37pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Makes perfect sense.
What also makes sense is maybe doing a little research in old rule books.....like....oh....POE #3 out of the 2008-09 rule book.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 29, 2010, 06:41pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
2008-09 Point Of Emphasis ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
POE #3 out of the 2008-09 rule book.
TIME-OUTS. The proper granting of time-outs continues to be of great concern. During live-ball situations, it is imperative that officials ensure player control before granting a time-out. Additionally, officials must ensure that the time-out request is coming from a player or the head coach of the team in control. Coaches must realize that officials have other responsibilities to the game that require their immediate attention. As a result, coaches must understand that just because a time-out was requested does not mean that a time-out will be granted. During loose-ball situations, when there is doubt as to which player has obtained control, officials should not grant a time-out, but rather rule a held ball.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Timeout Request Granted . . . When? Freddy Basketball 11 Sat Dec 26, 2009 06:33pm
Player Control and Team Control fouls MelbRef Basketball 15 Mon Dec 15, 2008 01:43pm
Timeout request Johnny Ringo Basketball 8 Mon Apr 30, 2007 04:14pm
Backcourt Violation and Timeout Request chgoref49 Basketball 2 Mon Feb 20, 2006 04:55pm
Player control vs Team control foul QuebecRef87 Basketball 6 Wed Jan 26, 2005 07:42am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:37am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1