Team Control timeout request

[DownTownTonyBrown]

If you have officiated very long, this has likely happened to you:

Team A has the ball, A1 becomes trapped ... one second, two seconds, A1 still is trapped, three seconds, four seconds, A1 attempts a pass to A2 and pass is in the air...

Team A coach jumps up and requests time as the pass is released.

Your whistle goes off as you move to grant the timeout request ... just as Team B intercepts the pass.

Now what?

Somebody point me in the right direction for rules.
NFHS 5-8-3a seems to say a time out request can be made during TEAM control (which is present during the pass - see NFHS 4-12-2b).

You know Team B coach is gong to be screaming that his team has the ball and he wants that break-away lay-up.

This situation has happened to me more than once and I have always relied upon stating that the request was made before Team B gained control and my whistle was just a little bit slow.

I'm looking for rules justification because I (and you too, probably) have been posed with the following question, "...can only be granted a timeout when the ball is in player control or the ball is dead." T or F.

"Only" and "player" are the words that are bothering me. For the "only" statement to be True shouldn't it say "team" control?

[tref]

Time outs should be granted when a player has possession of the ball, not when the ball is being passed among teammates.

There are times when the request comes very close to the release of the ball (try/pass). I verbally say, "white time out before the release" & that generally keeps me out of trouble.

[Raymond]

If the ball is dead either team can be granted a time-out.

When the ball is live, only the team in possession (team control) can (should) be granted a time-out, but only if there is player control or the ball is at the requesting team's disposal.

[Adam]

By rule, once the pass is released, you cannot grant timeout because there's no player control.
If, however, you blow your whistle while the ball is in the air; grant the timeout and give the ball to A as they had team control when your whistle blew.
If you blow your whistle after B intercepted the pass, grant the TO and give the ball to B as they had control when your whistle blew.

[Scrapper1]

Somebody point me in the right direction for rules.
NFHS 5-8-3a seems to say a time out request can be made during TEAM control (which is present during the pass - see NFHS 4-12-2b).

You might just need to read that rule again more carefully. It says the official can grant the time-out request when the ball is in control or at the disposal of a PLAYER on the requesting team. During a live ball, you need disposal or PLAYER control to grant the time-out.

So. . .

Originally Posted by DownTownTonyBrown

Team A coach jumps up and requests time as the pass is released.

Your whistle goes off as you move to grant the timeout request ... just as Team B intercepts the pass.

Now what?

You grant the request, even though you should not have blown the whistle. After the time-out, you resume with a throw-in to the team that was in control, which is Team A at the out of bounds spot closest to where the pass was released before the whistle sounded.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Scrapper and others ...

Rule 5-8-3a says specifically:
Grant's a player's/head coach's oral or visual request for a time-out, such request being granted only when:
a. The ball is in control or at the disposal of a player of his/her team.

I now understand that this statement DOES NOT include team control. It specifically is player control and I feel should grammatically be re-written as "the ball is in control of a player, or at the disposal of a player, of his/her team."

And as such, a timeout should not be granted during the flight of a pass, despite TEAM control continuing during this flight time because there is no PLAYER control.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by DownTownTonyBrown

Scrapper and others ...

Rule 5-8-3a says specifically:
Grant's a player's/head coach's oral or visual request for a time-out, such request being granted only when:
a. The ball is in control or at the disposal of a player of his/her team.

I now understand that this statement DOES NOT include team control. It specifically is player control and I feel should grammatically be re-written as "the ball is in control of a player, or at the disposal of a player, of his/her team."

And as such, a timeout should not be granted during the flight of a pass, despite TEAM control continuing during this flight time because there is no PLAYER control.

Why does it need to be re-written? It covers the situations in which a time-out can be granted during a live ball.

Also, there is no Team Control on a throw-in but a time-out can be granted to the team whose player has the ball at his/her disposal.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why does it need to be re-written? It covers the situations in which a time-out can be granted during a live ball.

Also, there is no Team Control on a throw-in but a time-out can be granted to the team whose player has the ball at his/her disposal.

The re-write does nothing. It doesn't change the meaning, nor does it make it any more clear.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Well you boys must have better operating crystal balls than mine.

It doesn't change the intended meaning. Agreed.

I feel what I suggested does clarify that meaning.

But don't get your panties in a knot - you might drop your crystal ball.

Thanks for your help.

[JRutledge]

This is clearly a basketball fundamental.

"The official's whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead)." Fundamental #16.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by DownTownTonyBrown

Well you boys must have better operating crystal balls than mine.

It doesn't change the intended meaning. Agreed.

I feel what I suggested does clarify that meaning.

But don't get your panties in a knot - you might drop your crystal ball.

Thanks for your help.

If I had a crystal ball I'd be in Vegas.

[BillyMac]

UConn-Syracuse ends on questionable call - College Basketball Nation Blog - ESPN

Controversial timeout helps Syracuse past UConn - Sports Pros(e)

After the UCONN-Suyracuse debacle, we received the following in an email from our interpreter. It's on the agenda to be discussed at our meeting coming up Wednesday night.

Coach Requesting Time-Out

By now, I assume many have heard about or viewed the time-out granted in the recent UConn-Syracuse game. The NFHS rule book (Rule 5-8-3) and IAABO mechanics 2-person manual (Page 79) do not provide a level of specificity to guide how we officiate this request. While I have reviewed in past years, I will definitely add to next year's Interpretation meeting for our members and coaches.

Here is how we should officiate this:

Upon recognizing a request for a time-out by the head coach, the official must then check to see if a time-out request can be granted (Rule 5-8-3) ball is dead; ball is live and in possession of a thrower-in; player control exists) prior to granting (blowing the whistle) the time-out.

Thus, there will be situations when an official hears a request for a time-out but cannot grant it. Yes, coaches will not like to hear this and will get ticked when you do not grant the time-out. While many officials do not agree that coaches should call time-outs, I recognize that this rule will not change at high school or college level.

[bob jenkins]

[QUOTE=BillyMac;703842Here is how we should officiate this:

1) The official must see the head coach to confirm he/she is requesting the time-out.

2) ... You may not need to turn and view the coach. [/QUOTE]

Makes perfect sense.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Makes perfect sense.

What also makes sense is maybe doing a little research in old rule books.....like....oh....POE #3 out of the 2008-09 rule book.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

POE #3 out of the 2008-09 rule book.

TIME-OUTS. The proper granting of time-outs continues to be of great concern. During live-ball situations, it is imperative that officials ensure player control before granting a time-out. Additionally, officials must ensure that the time-out request is coming from a player or the head coach of the team in control. Coaches must realize that officials have other responsibilities to the game that require their immediate attention. As a result, coaches must understand that just because a time-out was requested does not mean that a time-out will be granted. During loose-ball situations, when there is doubt as to which player has obtained control, officials should not grant a time-out, but rather rule a held ball.