end of UConn-Baylor: shot-clock violation?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref

I am not 100% on this one, but I can't think of any violations you can commit without team control. If you no longer have control of the basketball, how can you be charged with a violation if when the violation supposedly occurs, the other team has control?

I can COMPLETELY agree if Team A gets the board or even if Team A touches it or if the ball hits the floor beforehand.

But I think it's wrong to call it when Team B gets the ball before it hits the ground.

That's all. I'm done with arguing my thoughts. I'm wrong. I understand.

Let's see, violations where team control does not exist, or where your team does not have control:

* Free throw violations by defense
* Throw-in violations (NFHS rules)
* Reaching through the boundary on a throw-in
* Leaving the floor for an unauthorized reason
* Kicking the ball
* Striking ball with a fist
* Ball entering basket from below
* Jump ball violations
* Basket interference
* Goaltending
* Excessive swinging of elbows

It seems that there are more than can occur without team control than those that actually require team control.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Let's see, violations where team control does not exist, or where your team does not have control:

* Free throw violations by defense
* Throw-in violations (NFHS rules)
* Reaching through the boundary on a throw-in
* Leaving the floor for an unauthorized reason
* Kicking the ball
* Striking ball with a fist
* Ball entering basket from below
* Jump ball violations
* Basket interference
* Goaltending
* Excessive swinging of elbows

It seems that there are more than can occur without team control than those that actually require team control.

You forgot OOB violations.

The only ones that require team control are:
traveling
illegal dribble
3 seconds
5 seconds
10 seconds
backcourt

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You forgot OOB violations.

Whoops, I had overlooked the possibility of causing an OOB violation without team control. Nice catch.

[AHSAA_Ref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Let's see, violations where team control does not exist, or where your team does not have control:

* Free throw violations by defense (Okay)
* Throw-in violations (NFHS rules) (I'm not understanding. Once the ball is at the team's disposal, the team is in control.)
* Reaching through the boundary on a throw-in (Not a violation, a technical foul)
* Leaving the floor for an unauthorized reason (Also a technical foul, not a violation)
* Kicking the ball (Okay)
* Striking ball with a fist (Okay)
* Ball entering basket from below (You'd have to be in control of the ball to make it go through the hoop)
* Jump ball violations (Okay)
* Basket interference (Okay)
* Goaltending (Okay)
* Excessive swinging of elbows (Doubting anyone without control of the ball is going to excessively swing elbows and it not be a foul, just saying.)

It seems that there are more than can occur without team control than those that actually require team control.

Want to continue? Because this is getting very old.

[Adam]

1. There is no team control during a throw-in in NFHS rules.
2. DOG warnings are technically violations, the 2nd of which is enforced with a technical foul.
3. You really think a person has to be in control of the ball to make it go through the hoop? Would a person need to be in control to knock it out of bounds?
4. As for elbow swinging; the point isn't the potential or probability but the rule itself. Few of us have ever seen a player without the ball do it, but some have and I believe some on this board have even called it (rebounders for example.) Another example, one I gave in another thread, would be the thrower on a throwin doing it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref

Want to continue? Because this is getting very old.

Apparently not old enough b/c some of your reponses to Back in the Saddle are incorrect.

And this one:

Excessive swinging of elbows (Doubting anyone without control of the ball is going to excessively swing elbows and it not be a foul, just saying.)

How about 2 guys battling for low post or rebouding position and one guy gets frustrated and swings his elbow to create space.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref

Want to continue? Because this is getting very old.

I do. You had some very, very basic errors in your rebuttal.

1) There is no player or team control during a throw-in, including when the ball is at the disposal of a team(NFHS case book play 4.12COMMENT)
2) Leaving the floor for an unauthorized reason IS a violation, NOT a technical foul. NFHS rule 9-3-3.
3) Having player or team control has nothing to do with it being a violation for making the ball enter the basket from below. It can go off a player's head on a rebound up through the basket and that is a violation. NFHS rule 9-4.
4) Similarly, the violation for swinging the elbows has got nuthin' to do wwith player or team control either. It might be unlikely, but even if no player or team control is involved it's still a violation to swing your elbows without hitting someone.

Reading time!

[pizanno]

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref

Want to continue? Because this is getting very old.

Don't take it personally. It's not about being right or wrong. I see you're new, so I thought I would share that the value of this board (for me) is the wealth of knowledge and experience of others, and the willingness for them to help us improve rule knowledge.

Hopefully you will recognize the thorough responses provide you with the relevant information you need. This info might serve you better than than throwing around terms like 'control' and 'violation' without a strong understanding of how they are defined in the rulebook.

I consider myself experienced, but always learn something new about the rules that gives me more confidence to take to the court.

Welcome to the boards, and keep on posting.