end of UConn-Baylor: shot-clock violation?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Because in some instances the violation occurs before Team B secures the rebound. Might make a 1/2 a second to full second difference on the game clock.

The end of team control does not restart the shot clock, otherwise there could be no requirement for the shot to hit the rim. Your issue is not with the team control rule, but the shot clock rule itself.

[pizanno]

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref

But if the horn goes off and the shot hits the rim, it's not a violation. The violation occurred mid-shot, why not stop the play for a violation? See what I mean. There's no consistency in that rule.

the shotclock horn is merely a timing device. as referenced previously by BITS, the violation (and hopefully a subsequent whistle) occurs when "try does not subsequently strike the ring or flange or enter the basket", not when horn sounds.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref

But if the horn goes off and the shot hits the rim, it's not a violation. The violation occurred mid-shot, why not stop the play for a violation? See what I mean. There's no consistency in that rule.

Think about a shot in the air when the horn goes off to end a half/game - when does that period actually end? Does the horn end the shot?

The violation doesn't occur until we know that the shot hasn't hit the rim, not simply when the horn goes off. It is very similar in theory to the horn ending a period/game - the game ends when the shot ends. In both situations, the shot must leave the shooter's hand before the horn goes off as well.

[AHSAA_Ref]

Again. It makes sense. Just doesn't seem very consistent to me.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref

Again. It makes sense. Just doesn't seem very consistent to me.

I'm not sure what's not consistent. The violation is for failing to release a shot that hits the rim within the required time frame. Team control has nothing to do with it.

[AHSAA_Ref]

I am not 100% on this one, but I can't think of any violations you can commit without team control. If you no longer have control of the basketball, how can you be charged with a violation if when the violation supposedly occurs, the other team has control?

I can COMPLETELY agree if Team A gets the board or even if Team A touches it or if the ball hits the floor beforehand.

But I think it's wrong to call it when Team B gets the ball before it hits the ground.

That's all. I'm done with arguing my thoughts. I'm wrong. I understand.

[APG]

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref

I am not 100% on this one, but I can't think of any violations you can commit without team control.

Leaving the court for an unauthorized reason and excessive swinging of the elbows

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref

I am not 100% on this one, but I can't think of any violations you can commit without team control. If you no longer have control of the basketball, how can you be charged with a violation if when the violation supposedly occurs, the other team has control?

I can COMPLETELY agree if Team A gets the board or even if Team A touches it or if the ball hits the floor beforehand.

But I think it's wrong to call it when Team B gets the ball before it hits the ground.

That's all. I'm done with arguing my thoughts. I'm wrong. I understand.

Let's see, violations where team control does not exist, or where your team does not have control:

* Free throw violations by defense
* Throw-in violations (NFHS rules)
* Reaching through the boundary on a throw-in
* Leaving the floor for an unauthorized reason
* Kicking the ball
* Striking ball with a fist
* Ball entering basket from below
* Jump ball violations
* Basket interference
* Goaltending
* Excessive swinging of elbows

It seems that there are more than can occur without team control than those that actually require team control.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref

I am not 100% on this one, but I can't think of any violations you can commit without team control. If you no longer have control of the basketball, how can you be charged with a violation if when the violation supposedly occurs, the other team has control?

I can COMPLETELY agree if Team A gets the board or even if Team A touches it or if the ball hits the floor beforehand.

But I think it's wrong to call it when Team B gets the ball before it hits the ground.

That's all. I'm done with arguing my thoughts. I'm wrong. I understand.

Shot clock violations are, essentially, delayed violations. The violation is for not releasing a shot that hits the rim or goes in; but you don't know it's a violation until the shot misses. Actually, there are a lot of violations that can be committed without team control.

The fact is, with the shot clock violation, team control isn't really a concern, otherwise an airball taken with 27 seconds left on the shot clock would result in a re-set due to loss of team control.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Let's see, violations where team control does not exist, or where your team does not have control:

* Free throw violations by defense
* Throw-in violations (NFHS rules)
* Reaching through the boundary on a throw-in
* Leaving the floor for an unauthorized reason
* Kicking the ball
* Striking ball with a fist
* Ball entering basket from below
* Jump ball violations
* Basket interference
* Goaltending
* Excessive swinging of elbows

It seems that there are more than can occur without team control than those that actually require team control.

You forgot OOB violations.

The only ones that require team control are:
traveling
illegal dribble
3 seconds
5 seconds
10 seconds
backcourt

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You forgot OOB violations.

Whoops, I had overlooked the possibility of causing an OOB violation without team control. Nice catch.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Never argue with Bob.

It's "Always listen to bob".

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It's "Always listen to bob".

Perhaps. But it should be "Never argue with Bob." While not listening to Bob does sometimes get me into trouble, every time I argue with Bob...I lose.

[MikeCapps]

Here in California we have a shot clock for high school.

This topic has been going round on our association "Forum,"

The violation occurs when it is determined that the ball does not hit the rim, but we have some who think that we should re-set the game clock to where it was when the shot clock sounded and the ball subsequenlty did not hit the rim. I disagree with that, but there is no specific interpretation regarding that issue.


Just looking for thoughts on this. We are contacting the state rules interpretor on this.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The end of team control does not restart the shot clock, otherwise there could be no requirement for the shot to hit the rim. Your issue is not with the team control rule, but the shot clock rule itself.

It's not my issue...you have me confused with some else.