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[tref]

Makes sense Snaqs!

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You had to UNLEARN all the high school bs? You NEVER knew the HS bs(as you call it) that well, Ch!town.

Lah me.....delusions of grandeur.

What 90% of the people on this forum do is High School bs......

I hear ya JR... way to put your own spin on it. Never said the HS level was bs, the mentality of some who work that level is though.

As long as the people that do the hiring & scheduling like what I do
Your internet opinions of me & my abilities simply do not matter. But I told you this once before.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Makes sense Snaqs!



I hear ya JR... way to put your own spin on it. Never said the HS level was bs, the mentality of some who work that level is though.

As long as the people that do the hiring & scheduling like what I do
Your internet opinions of me & my abilities simply do not matter. But I told you this once before.

Oh, I don't know, I've run into more college bs from a smaller sample of officials than bad high school attitudes.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Oh, I don't know, I've run into more college bs from a smaller sample of officials than bad high school attitudes.

Speaking more on mental approaches to the GAME than individual attitudes.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Speaking more on mental approaches to the GAME than individual attitudes.

So you're saying that the high school game has a mental approach that is inherently problematic (aka "bs")?

Such as?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So you're saying that the high school game has a mental approach that is inherently problematic (aka "bs")?

Such as?

Not overall, just some officials that work the HS game. See post # 19

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

But they're also the ones who decide to use college mechanics in a HS game. They're also the ones who misapply rules because they're using NCAA rules rather than NFHS.

That is bs too, use the preferred mechanics/rules of the level you are working that night.

[Adam]

Post #19 reflects the attitude I've experienced at the high school level; get it right. I haven't seen the territorial types you seem to have.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Post #19 reflects the attitude I've experienced at the high school level; get it right. I haven't seen the territorial types you seem to have.

You sir, have been more fortunate than I. Perhaps you working the 7pm primetime contests & me working the 4pm opening act is the difference


JR dont you have some turnbacks to re-assign?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Oh, I don't know, I've run into more college bs from a smaller sample of officials than bad high school attitudes.

I have said this before and I will say this again. The best officials I have worked at the high school level are almost always college officials or have college experience. And the main reason is they go to camps on a regular basis and they realize their responsibility. And most of all they do not defer to others to take care of business or speak for them. Many long time high school veterans do things they did 20 years ago and stop evolving as officiating as evolved in that same time.

Peace

[tref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have said this before and I will say this again. The best officials I have worked at the high school level are almost always college officials or have college experience. And the main reason is they go to camps on a regular basis and they realize their responsibility. And most of all they do not defer to others to take care of business or speak for them. Many long time high school veterans do things they did 20 years ago and stop evolving as officiating as evolved in that same time.

Peace

Bingo!

I sure hope I dont have to come from L (opposite table) to take care of an out of control coach, just because it doesnt "bother" my partner or they dont "feel like" doing paperwork

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have said this before and I will say this again. The best officials I have worked at the high school level are almost always college officials or have college experience. And the main reason is they go to camps on a regular basis and they realize their responsibility. And most of all they do not defer to others to take care of business or speak for them. Many long time high school veterans do things they did 20 years ago and stop evolving as officiating as evolved in that same time.

Peace

I'm not going to disagree with any of this, because I can't. You're right, most of the best officials I've worked with work some college.

But they're also the ones who decide to use college mechanics in a HS game. They're also the ones who misapply rules because they're using NCAA rules rather than NFHS.

Is it universal? No. Is it a majority? No. Is it a significant minority? No. But it happens often enough to warrant mention.

And the fact is I've had more bs from college officials working hs games than from hs officials.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm not going to disagree with any of this, because I can't. You're right, most of the best officials I've worked with work some college.

But they're also the ones who decide to use college mechanics in a HS game. They're also the ones who misapply rules because they're using NCAA rules rather than NFHS.

Is it universal? No. Is it a majority? No. Is it a significant minority? No. But it happens often enough to warrant mention.

And the fact is I've had more bs from college officials working hs games than from hs officials.

For the record I am almost primarily talking about Men's officials and boy's basketball. And Men's mechanics almost entirely mirror what we do at the NF from coverage area to signals. So there are not many "college mechanics" they do that would be in conflict. But there are signals that officials use that are not in any book and it does not matter what level the officials are you will see those from time to time.

Peace

[tref]

Since Snaqs & I are in the same board, I unfortunately know of which he speaks:

1. OOB - no stop clock, just point
2. Walking & talking
3. 2 handed reporting
4. Not awarding FTs on throw-in foul situations (team control in NCAA not in HS)
5. Hit to the head signal

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tref

Since Snaqs & I are in the same board, I unfortunately know of which he speaks:

1. OOB - no stop clock, just point
2. Walking & talking
3. 2 handed reporting
4. Not awarding FTs on throw-in foul situations (team control in NCAA not in HS)
5. Hit to the head signal

And, 4 of the 5 of those have absolutely nothing to do with how well they call the game, how good of a partner they are, or anything that really matters. Sure, everyone should follow the prescribed mechanics, but these things are way down the list of things that make a good official.

I happen to find it quite difficult to switch things like #1 form game to game. I think the signal that comes out is more of a reflex than a thoughtful choice. If the person is working a fair amount of college games and is focusing on improving those mechanics, it they will probably do those things, not out of trying to big time you, but out of habit.

There is little reason why the two levels are different on 1, 2, 3, and 5. They are different, sure, but no major reason.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tref

Since Snaqs & I are in the same board, I unfortunately know of which he speaks:

1. OOB - no stop clock, just point
2. Walking & talking
3. 2 handed reporting
4. Not awarding FTs on throw-in foul situations (team control in NCAA not in HS)
5. Hit to the head signal

1. In my area most people stop the clock. That is not an NCAA-M mechanic as we are to still stop the clock. If you ever attended a camp with John Adams or even Dale Kelley this was required. Actually it would identify you more as a Women's official.

2. Officials did this regardless of their mechanics. But once again this is not a NCAA mechanic on the Men's side.

3. Not a widely accepted Men's mechanic and not used or taught.

4. I have high school officials that screw this up all the time or do not know this rule.

5. I have seen guys do that regardless of their level.

The problem is that many times we assume things people do has something to actually do with college. College mechanics did not have all these procedures and I saw officials doing them. But we are not talking about signals which you will find all officials have some idiosyncrasies that are not perfect. And I have yet to be called out on them or see them called out on many of them unless they think you can officiate and it is a pet peeve of the person observing. I know people that get upset if you do not use all four fingers on a directional signal. Ultimately who really cares if you get the call right. But college officials in my experience know when to call out of their primary and when not to.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tref

I hear ya JR... way to put your own spin on it. Never said the HS level was bs, the mentality of some who work that level is though.

As long as the people that do the hiring & scheduling like what I do
Your internet opinions of me & my abilities simply do not matter. But I told you this once before.

Ch!town, you used to be completely full of sh!t. Now with your newly-gained vast experience in the last year or so, you're only down a pint.

Feel free to tell us all about the state high school finals and NCAA D1 games you're now doing since you changed your name and locale.

You'll never change. You'll aways be the same ol' Ch!town that we knew and loved.