debate between me and another

[representing]

I had a debate with one of my officiating buddies. He was told about this situation by another official who had this situation.

with just a few seconds left in the second quarter, A1 has the ball and is going for a layup. B1 fouls A1 just as the time expires. The shot is good. In frustration for being fouled, A1 gets up and slams the wall, resulting in a technical foul. The referees gave A1 his one free throw, and then gave team B two technical free throws for the technical foul. After this, it was halftime.

Here is where the debate comes in. How do you start the next quarter? Is it a throw-in for B as a result for the technical foul on A1 and do not switch the arrow? Or, do you go to the arrow?

I'm not going into how my buddy and I debated this out, as we had like a 30 minute debate on this. I just want to know what you guys think and then I will go back to my buddy to say what y'all said. I also emailed our Rules Interpreter to see what he had to say.

[APG]

Rule 5, Section 6, Article 2

Exceptions:

3. If a foul occurs so near the expiration of time that the timer cannot get the clock stopped before time expires, but while the ball is in flight during a try or tap for field goal. The quarter or extra period ends when the free throw(s) and all related activity have been completed. No penalty or part of a penalty carries over from the one quarter or extra period to the next, except when a correctable error, as in 2-10, is rectified. No free throw(s) shall be attempted after time has expired for the fourth quarter or any extra period, unless the point(s) would affect the outcome of the game.

Bolded portion was my own emphasis. Start the next quarter using the arrow.

[Adam]

Penalties do not carry over from one period to the next.
The period is not over until all penalties are completed (the FT for the shooting foul), so A1's technical foul is part of the 2nd quarter.
Third quarter stars with an AP throwin.

Now, if there had been no shooting foul, and A1 committed a technical foul after the horn sounded, then the third quarter would start with the free throws for team B.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Penalties do not carry over from one period to the next.
The period is not over until all penalties are completed (the FT for the shooting foul), so A1's technical foul is part of the 2nd quarter.
Third quarter stars with an AP throwin.

Now, if there had been no shooting foul, and A1 committed a technical foul after the horn sounded, then the third quarter would start with the free throws for team B.

This is exactly what I thought. My buddy was saying that you still have to penalize the team by giving B the ball regardless of where the arrow is. I called BS on that and apparently I was right. Thanks!

[Adam]

The key is knowing you can't carry penalties over from one quarter to another; and knowing when the quarter ends.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by representing

This is exactly what I thought. My buddy was saying that you still have to penalize the team by giving B the ball regardless of where the arrow is. I called BS on that and apparently I was right. Thanks!

Seems that your buddy knows even less about the rules than you do.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Seems that your buddy knows even less about the rules than you do.

Gratuitous. We're all learning.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Gratuitous. We're all learning.

Yep, it was. I still harbor ill feelings towards that poster from his previous postings on this forum and the know-it-all attitude which he has displayed.

If he will admit that he is not very experienced and still learning many of the rules, I'll cease taking shots at him.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Now, if there had been no shooting foul, and A1 committed a technical foul after the horn sounded, then the third quarter would start with the free throws for team B.

And the subsequent throw-in after the FT's is for the "T", not an AP throw-in. And the team A head coach gets an indirect "T" and seat-belted.

You knew all that. Just throwing it in for maybe somebody who wasn't sure.

[hilltopperref]

Eventhough the time has expired the quarter has not ended. Rule 5.6.3 "The quarter ends when all related activity has been completed" Eventhough time has expired, we have two foul shots coming up which is related to the activity ending the 2nd quarter. So the technical is part of the 2nd quarter. Administer the Foul shots administer the Tech shots, start half time and begin the 3rd q with AP throw in as usual. The tech happened as part of the 2nd Q so we cannot carry over a penalty, which is why team A cannot have the ball to begin the 3rd q.

[hilltopperref]

From the NFHS case book. Makes it very clear.

10.5.5 SITUATION A: Airborne shooter A1 is fouled by B1 after the ball is released on the try. Playing time for the second quarter expires while the unsuccessful try is in flight. Since no players are required to line up for the free throws, Team B’s head coach takes the team to the locker room to begin the intermission. RULING: Team B’s head coach is assessed a direct technical foul for permitting team members to leave the bench/court for an unauthorized reason. Even though no time remains on the game clock, the quarter doesn’t end until A1’s free throws are completed; therefore, the technical foul is part of the second quarter. A1 will attempt the two shooting-foul free throws followed by any Team A member attempting the two free throws for the technical foul. The third quarter will begin with the alternating-possession procedure. (5-6-2 Exception 3)

[representing]

Well, last night I called my buddy to tell him he was wrong (in the nicest way possible) and he flipped out at me saying I'm still wrong. Told him to read the rules and the casebook play you all mentioned and he flipped out saying something like "well that's stupid! You mean to tell me you can't fully punish the other team just because the quarter is over?!". I then responded saying "I don't make the rules. If you really have a problem with it, you have two options. GET OVER IT or call NFHS and PIAA (Pennsylvania's organization) about it. Don't complain to me anymore" and then I hung up. I can't stand the guy sometime...