Coach's Question, Need Help Responding

[PIAA REF]

I have had 2 girls varsity coaches approach me in the past week with the same question. I am not sure how to answere them fully. Let me know if you have any idea how to answer them better than I have already. The question that these 2 coaches brought up was why is it that they see top notch officials not doing Varsity Girls. I replied to them that we as officials are independent contractors. They are upset that they see top officials officiating jr. High games but these same officials will not ref girls games. The one coach even questioned how is that permitted with Title 9. I said since we are independent contractors it has nothing to do with title 9. I am sure they thought as did I that my answer was a little vague. Do you have any better way to answer this. We do have some officials that do only boys varsity, but they may pick up a jr high game here and there because it pays well. These officials refuse to take girls assignments for various reasons. What should I say to these 2 coaches that are offended by such?

[JRutledge]

The answer is simple. They do not want to work girl's basketball and they do not have to work girl's basketball. Most officials are male and they see themselves working what they played or what they watch on TV. The rating comparisons for Men’s and Women’s basketball are clear. You could find the World Championships all over the TV this past August; you could not find the Women's championships but on the NBA network. I think it is that simple.

Peace

[centkyref]

Not that this will help you at all in answering the coach, but in KY it is a new requirement this year that to work post season an official has to work a number of girls games. I believe that number is 8 or 9, but I can't remember. I'm sure we had the same thing here where the girls coaches weren't happy with not seeing the top-ranked officials enough.

[mbyron]

Actually, you could make a Title IX case here: if better officials do not work girls games, then it would seem that the girls have been "excluded from participation in, [been] denied the benefits of, or [been] subjected to discrimination under [an] education program." The schools and assignors could be held liable, even though officials are indeed independent contractors. The argument would be that the schools and assignors are complicit in an arrangement that effectively denies benefits to girls by denying them access to better officiating.

I'm not saying such a suit would win; indeed, it would probably never go to trial. But I think it's incorrect to claim that, because we're independent contractors, Title IX is irrelevant to us: once you step through a school's door, it's relevant, whether the check has the school's name on it or not. The fix is easy: if you want games from an assignor, you take both boys and girls.

I'm a little surprised that this suit hasn't actually been filed somewhere or other. I can't possibly be the first person to think of this argument.

If I were asked this question, I would simply tell the coach the truth: some officials don't regard the girls' game as real basketball. Some of those are "better" officials, and some are not.

[tref]

Independent contractors, PERIOD! We work who we want, when we want & with whom we want.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by tref

Independent contractors, PERIOD! We work who we want, when we want & with whom we want.

Now you know it's not that simple. You work where your assignor tells you, at contests sanctioned by the state, wearing the proper uniform, using the correct rules and mechanics, and subject to applicable local, state, and federal laws.

Including Title IX.

[Rufus]

This isn't an issue in GA. Our association works both women's and men's games with the same crew (i.e., same 2-man for JV, same 3-man for V).

What's interesting, though, is at the camp I attended this year it was expressly stated that the quickest way to become a college official is to concentrate on the women's game. If my aspirations were such that I wanted to break into college officiating it would definitely be on the women's side for this reason. Yes I realize this perception on my part and clinicians at the camp may be mistaken but, if it isn't, it would seem concentrating on the women's game would the most efficient way of accomplishing that goal.

[tref]

IDK mbyron... we have the accept/decline boxes for every game we are offered via Arbiter.

Personally, I check the accept box for any assignment offered, regardless of gender or level. Many of our Big Dawgs will not travel past certain limits or work a 2 person game or even work girls games.

Most assignors don't offer the more skilled officials girls games anyway, unless its part of a double-header.

We are required to work a certain amount of girls & lower-level games to be considered eligible for post-season.

All in all, I stick by my original comment. Lets face it unlike college & up, at the HS level they need us more than we need them.

[Indianaref]

Why is it that we don't see top notch coaches not doing Varsity Girls?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

Why is it that we don't see top notch coaches not doing Varsity Girls?

Would that be considered a smart-aleck response?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Would that be considered a smart-aleck response?

It might be, but it might also challenge the coach's assumption / perception that "high level" officials aren't working girl's games.

[jritchie]

This year in Kentucky they are hitting this very thing hard for all officials! It doesn't matter how many boys games you call all season long, but if you don't get 8 varsity girls games for the season you are not eligible for POST SEASON PLAY! Not even right, I don't think I've called 8 girls games in the last 3 years. Now I have to do a mandatory 8 to be eligible to do post season...Pitiful. But this will take care of the question that was asked in this thread.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Actually, you could make a Title IX case here: if better officials do not work girls games, then it would seem that the girls have been "excluded from participation in, [been] denied the benefits of, or [been] subjected to discrimination under [an] education program." The schools and assignors could be held liable, even though officials are indeed independent contractors. The argument would be that the schools and assignors are complicit in an arrangement that effectively denies benefits to girls by denying them access to better officiating.

I'm not saying such a suit would win; indeed, it would probably never go to trial. But I think it's incorrect to claim that, because we're independent contractors, Title IX is irrelevant to us: once you step through a school's door, it's relevant, whether the check has the school's name on it or not. The fix is easy: if you want games from an assignor, you take both boys and girls.

I'm a little surprised that this suit hasn't actually been filed somewhere or other. I can't possibly be the first person to think of this argument.

If I were asked this question, I would simply tell the coach the truth: some officials don't regard the girls' game as real basketball. Some of those are "better" officials, and some are not.

Keep in mind that Title IX is a Federal statue. Independent contractor laws are often based on state tax laws. I do not think my state would want to go there.

Peace

[jTheUmp]

I don't really get it either... I'll take the first game that's offered to me by any assigner that will offer me games on any date that I have open. Girls, boys, Jr High, rec league, whatever.

But then again, I'm only a second-year basketball official, so I rather doubt that I'm considered one of the "top officials" anyway.

At least, not yet. But I'm working on it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

I don't really get it either... I'll take the first game that's offered to me by any assigner that will offer me games on any date that I have open. Girls, boys, Jr High, rec league, whatever.

But then again, I'm only a second-year basketball official, so I rather doubt that I'm considered one of the "top officials" anyway.

At least, not yet. But I'm working on it.

Well you obviously do not work in a system like mine. Every level and every conference has an assignor. You have to accept games from different sources and the higher you go up they do not care that you are working levels below, but if you are not available when they want you, they will find someone else. So often officials have to choose or they have to adhere to the standards of that assignor.

Peace