Coach's Question, Need Help Responding

[Rufus]

This isn't an issue in GA. Our association works both women's and men's games with the same crew (i.e., same 2-man for JV, same 3-man for V).

What's interesting, though, is at the camp I attended this year it was expressly stated that the quickest way to become a college official is to concentrate on the women's game. If my aspirations were such that I wanted to break into college officiating it would definitely be on the women's side for this reason. Yes I realize this perception on my part and clinicians at the camp may be mistaken but, if it isn't, it would seem concentrating on the women's game would the most efficient way of accomplishing that goal.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Rufus

What's interesting, though, is at the camp I attended this year it was expressly stated that the quickest way to become a college official is to concentrate on the women's game. If my aspirations were such that I wanted to break into college officiating it would definitely be on the women's side for this reason. Yes I realize this perception on my part and clinicians at the camp may be mistaken but, if it isn't, it would seem concentrating on the women's game would the most efficient way of accomplishing that goal.

They were mistaken. Maybe JRut was at the camp! Admittedly it was the case 'back in the day' but it is hyper competitive now.
It appears each of us have different procedures about how they are assigned games. I would take what the coaches say with a grain of salt and say something like "What am I?" smile and move on. It is a no win argument.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Judtech

They were mistaken. Maybe JRut was at the camp!

Never went to a college camp for women's basketball. The guy I worked for assigned by the Women's and the Men's side in a D3 conference. He assigned officials to both sides and was fired as a result from that conference. That says all I need to know about that side.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Never went to a college camp for women's basketball. The guy I worked for assigned by the Women's and the Men's side in a D3 conference. He assigned officials to both sides and was fired as a result from that conference. That says all I need to know about that side.

Peace

I've been sitting here on the sidelines litening to this discussion, but now I have to insert my 2 cents.

Jeff, I'm curious as to your comment above, and hope that you would expand a little more on it. Which "side" are you talking about? What specifically is it that you now know?

I know there was a D-3 assignor up in your area who used to assign both the women's and men's games in at least one conference, because I know several women's college officials from my area that worked for him as well. There were many times these officials would work a women's game that he assigned, and their partner(s) would be officials that primarily work on the men's side. Many times (but not all), the officials who primarily worked the men's side did not know the women's mechanics and rules, and several times expressed disappointment that they had to work a women's game. There was one NCAA tournament game where one of these men's officials showed up in the locker room before the game, and asked, "So, which mechanics are we using tonight?" He was dead serious. WTF, at a Tournament game?! So it is no wonder most of these games were called inconsistenly, and as a result, I understand the conference decided they would need to find assignors that were more in tune to the differences between the men's and women's games.

So, what it tells me is that there are still officials and assignors that look down upon the women's game, and don't consider it as important. I'm also kind of surprised some these same officials will tell me directly that they don't want to work a women's college game because it's a harder game to officiate. So, in my experience, in some cases, NCAA men's official's will look at the women's game as a lesser game, while that feeling is not returned. It is also the same at the high school level between boys and girls' officials.

I'm not here to pick a fight over which game is better, or who has more egos, or who's right. The 2 games are different, and each one takes a slightly different skill-set to officiate at the highest level. Each one of us has chosen a different game, and I have the upmost repect for those that are able to work at the highest levels, whether it's a State Tournament high school official, NCAA D-1 official, or NBA official.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I've been sitting here on the sidelines litening to this discussion, but now I have to insert my 2 cents.

Jeff, I'm curious as to your comment above, and hope that you would expand a little more on it. Which "side" are you talking about? What specifically is it that you now know?

I know there was a D-3 assignor up in your area who used to assign both the women's and men's games in at least one conference, because I know several women's college officials from my area that worked for him as well. There were many times these officials would work a women's game that he assigned, and their partner(s) would be officials that primarily work on the men's side. Many times (but not all), the officials who primarily worked the men's side did not know the women's mechanics and rules, and several times expressed disappointment that they had to work a women's game.

I am not going to get too much into that here. All I will say is now that conference has two separate assignors for each side of their gender assigning. I will let you conclude what that means.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

So, what it tells me is that there are still officials and assignors that look down upon the women's game, and don't consider it as important. I'm also kind of surprised some these same officials will tell me directly that they don't want to work a women's college game because it's a harder game to officiate. So, in my experience, in some cases, NCAA men's official's will look at the women's game as a lesser game, while that feeling is not returned. It is also the same at the high school level between boys and girls' officials.

What I will never understand is why if someone tells you what they want to do they are looking "down" on that level? I do not want to work Pro-Am ball or Men's league, does that mean I am looking down on that level? I just have no desire to work that game. And in the current camp system the individuals that are assigning each side you cannot work both. That is fine with me. Again I have no desire to watch a NCAAW game let alone watch one. And if there are those that feel it is a lesser game, why would anyone care? I do not begrudge those that decide not to watch the NBA. It is not enjoyable to everyone and certainly not enjoyable to all officials.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I'm not here to pick a fight over which game is better, or who has more egos, or who's right. The 2 games are different, and each one takes a slightly different skill-set to officiate at the highest level. Each one of us has chosen a different game, and I have the upmost repect for those that are able to work at the highest levels, whether it's a State Tournament high school official, NCAA D-1 official, or NBA official.

I was not taking that way. Unlike some people here I have met you.

But I do get a little tired of the attitude that someone has to be made to feel bad because they choose not to work girl's or woman's basketball. I like my 3 games a week normal schedule. Adding woman's ball would get me fired from my men's leagues and kept me back from working earlier because it was assumed I was doing games for that person you mentioned. And I would burn out by mid-December. I do not work all levels of football either, but no one spends their time trying to lecture officials for only working high school games. Why do we go through this on the basketball side?

Peace

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Never went to a college camp for women's basketball. The guy I worked for assigned by the Women's and the Men's side in a D3 conference. He assigned officials to both sides and was fired as a result from that conference. That says all I need to know about that side.

Peace

Yeah, I agree about THAT side!!

Also, not sure how Title IX would play into the argument. This is a case, for lack of a better term, of "Serperate But Equal". On the NFHS side, so long as the officials calling the games are certified (based on whatever that criteria would be) then there is no Title IX issue. Now if a school/district/state were using "certified" officials for the one and not the other, THEN you might have a problem. On the NCAA side you have an even split on the "corporate" side in Indy, both men and women are provided the same resources and each have their own, seperate, evaluation procedures. So they are good there.