College Question - Elbows

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

1. It is an intentional foul. In order to be a flagrant foul, it had to be deemed excessive. It does not sound like that.

What has to be deemed excessive? The swing of the elbow? If that's what you mean, then I'm not sure I agree with this. By definition, a flagrant foul includes "severe" contact. You can cause severe contact, even without excessively swinging your elbows.

If you mean that the contact has to be deemed excessive, then I still disagree, because by definition, that would merely be an intentional foul.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, FWIW, which may be nothing.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What has to be deemed excessive? The swing of the elbow? If that's what you mean, then I'm not sure I agree with this. By definition, a flagrant foul includes "severe" contact. You can cause severe contact, even without excessively swinging your elbows.

If you mean that the contact has to be deemed excessive, then I still disagree, because by definition, that would merely be an intentional foul.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, FWIW, which may be nothing.

This is the language to which I was referring:

Any foul involving excessive swinging of the arm(s) and elbow(s) (Rule 4-36.7), either above or below the shoulders during a live ball, or that otherwise meets the requirements of Rule 4-29.2.c and 4-29.3.f.1 shall be penalized by a flagrant personal foul.

[BayStateRef]

Link to Article Note Penalty Case Ruling Rule Comment Image Table Figure Exception

NCAA 4-36-7 (same for men and women):

The following shall be considered excessive swinging:
a. When arm(s) and elbow(s) are swung about while using the shoulders as pivots, and the speed of the extended arm(s) and elbow(s) exceeds that of the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot; or
b. When the speed and vigor with which the arm(s) and elbow(s) are swung is such that injury could result if another player were contacted.

The guidance on the women's side is that if the official deems the elbow contact with an opponent, above or below the shoulders, to be excessive, then the penalty is a flagrant foul. If it during a live ball, it is a flagrant personal foul; if during a dead ball, it is a flagrant technical foul.