Clock/Time question

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

But in the OP the horn has sounded. At least that is how I read the scenario.

And that was the point of my post. The most obvious reading of the OP IMHO is that the horn has sounded.

But it's hard to argue JR's point about having the key

[just another ref]

A1 is fouled in the act of shooting just prior to the horn sounding to signal the end of the quarter.


It is impossible to say based on simply this one sentence whether the horn sounded or not. The only thing that is certain is that the foul occurred before the horn. Wording like this is certainly not unheard of on test questions.

If one really wants to split hairs, (who would do that?) one could point out that even if the horn did sound in the OP, and even if time is not put back on the clock, in this particular case the horn does not end the quarter.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm sorry, but the OP reads differently than this, and seems to me to be a relic from the days of lag time.

Just a comment about this piece: the case play refers to the clock reading 0 minutes and 00 seconds, which does not take tenths into account. The clock could have been stopped with time remaining, which would explain why the horn hadn't sounded. This does not necessarily involve "lag time."

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Just a comment about this piece: the case play refers to the clock reading 0 minutes and 00 seconds, which does not take tenths into account. The clock could have been stopped with time remaining, which would explain why the horn hadn't sounded. This does not necessarily involve "lag time."

But it could involve lag time, so Snaqs could be right.

Nah, you're right!

Though I will point out that the lag time rule and clocks that don't show 10ths of a second are both relics from the same era, and so "the days of lag time" are also the days before 10ths became the norm.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Wording like this is certainly not unheard of on test questions.

Exactly. Vague and confusing at time, and open to individual interpretation. We've argued the terminology used in some of 'em to death here over the years. I always personally found that the best way to approch them is just take the question at apparent face value without trying to read any additional info into it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

But in the OP the horn has sounded. At least that is how I read the scenario.

Yup, that's how you read the scenario. But does it definitively state that the horn actually did sound?

All I can tell you that I have seen this question on several previous FED exams and it has always been there as a reference to the case play that I cited. That ain't to say that someone writing the test in the future could make up something similar with vague info and have it refer to the lag time rules instead.

[rwest]

This is a GHSA mechanic. It is specific to Georgia, which is why your heard about it in the Camp and you will not find any support for it in the rule book. I couldn't find it in the online "White Book" either, but it is a GHSA specific mechanic.

And furthermore, you are required to place .3 seconds on the clock. So you know what that means? No catch and shoot on a rebound. Has to be a tip.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rwest

This is a GHSA mechanic. It is specific to Georgia, which is why your heard about it in the Camp and you will not find any support for it in the rule book. I couldn't find it in the online "White Book" either, but it is a GHSA specific mechanic.

And furthermore, you are required to place .3 seconds on the clock. So you know what that means? No catch and shoot on a rebound. Has to be a tip.

So the GA rule requires you to put .3 back on the clock in the following scenario?

A1 is fouled in the act of shooting. Immediately after he is fouled, the horn sounds to end the period.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So the GA rule requires you to put .3 back on the clock in the following scenario?

A1 is fouled in the act of shooting. Immediately after he is fouled, the horn sounds to end the period.

As far as I know yes. If we have a foul at the end of the period and then the horn sounds, we line them up and shot the free throws with .3 seconds on the clock.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger Snaqwells! :-)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rwest

As far as I know yes. If we have a foul at the end of the period and then the horn sounds, we line them up and shot the free throws with .3 seconds on the clock.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger Snaqwells! :-)

I haven't even found my ammo yet.

Actually, I don't really have a problem with that directive. It makes sense that if you can hear a discernible lag between your whistle and the horn, some time should go back up. The rules don't allow us to do that without definite knowledge, however.
As far as state adoptions go, this may be the least objectionable from my perspective.

[APG]

Originally Posted by rwest

As far as I know yes. If we have a foul at the end of the period and then the horn sounds, we line them up and shot the free throws with .3 seconds on the clock.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger Snaqwells! :-)

Weird...is this only in situations where the officials don't have definite knowledge of what to put back on the clock? What if an official sees 1.0 when he whistles a foul and for some reason, the timer doesn't stop the clock in time (wouldn't happen with our resident expert timekeeper )?

[rwest]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Weird...is this only in situations where the officials don't have definite knowledge of what to put back on the clock? What if an official sees 1.0 when he whistles a foul and for some reason, the timer doesn't stop the clock in time (wouldn't happen with our resident expert timekeeper )?

If you have definite knowledge we go with what we know. It is only in this one instance where we put .3 on the clock. It has to be shot then horn, not shot....look up at the clock see 1.0 seconds...then horn.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A1 is fouled in the act of shooting just prior to the horn sounding to signal the end of the quarter.


It is impossible to say based on simply this one sentence whether the horn sounded or not. The only thing that is certain is that the foul occurred before the horn. Wording like this is certainly not unheard of on test questions.

I disagree. To state that event A to occurs before event B implies that event B does occur. The statement establishes an order of events, not a hypothetical order of possible events.

[tigertater]

Thanks for all of the replies..............and just as I suspected, the answers all seemed to be valid and somewhat different........much like our discussions at our meetings.

rwest -

Thanks for clarifying that point. It makes perfect sense to me, and I don't have any issues following the directive and putting the .3 on the clock. The only thing that is bothersome is the attempt to clarify this with some of the coaches. As was pointed out by another poster, it's not a good idea for a coach to pull out a rule book unless he/she wants to give up standing ...but at the same time, with nothing in print, it sounds rather flimsy to have to rely on the "we were told this at camp" explanation.

Oh well.............it is what it is.

Thanks again.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by tigertater

Thanks for all of the replies..............and just as I suspected, the answers all seemed to be valid and somewhat different........much like our discussions at our meetings.

rwest -

Thanks for clarifying that point. It makes perfect sense to me, and I don't have any issues following the directive and putting the .3 on the clock. The only thing that is bothersome is the attempt to clarify this with some of the coaches. As was pointed out by another poster, it's not a good idea for a coach to pull out a rule book unless he/she wants to give up standing ...but at the same time, with nothing in print, it sounds rather flimsy to have to rely on the "we were told this at camp" explanation.

Oh well.............it is what it is.

Thanks again.

A better way to address the coach is that it is a GHSA mechanic and that you won't find it in the rule book. It is a state adoption. If he doesn't like it and persists give him the stop sign (I know not an unofficial mechanic, but it is what we are told to do in my Association) and if he persists after that ask if he wants cookies with his T. That last part is a joke. Not T'ing up, but the cookies part.

What association are you with?