You Can Ring My Bell ...

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Team A trails 56 to 55 with 60 seconds left in the game. Team A has the ball and is setting up a last second shot. A1, Team A's best player, accidentally trips over his own feet coming of a screen. A1 falls and hits his head on the floor. As he tries to stand up he stumbles a few steps. The official realizes that A1 is showing a symptom of a concussion and blows the whistle to stop the game. The official tells the coach that A1 "appears dizzy" and beckons the coach, and/or trainer, onto the court. The coach, realizing that he has used up all of his timeouts, and that if he steps onto the court he will have to remove his best player from the game, or take a time out at the expense of a technical foul, tells the official, from his bench, without ever stepping out onto the court, that, "A1 seems fine. I'll keep him in the game". By rule, if this were a normal injury, the sit a tick, or take a timeout, rule wouldn't apply because the coach and/or trainer did not come out onto the court. However, the way I read the new concussion rule, once the official feels that there is a concussion symptom, then even if the coach, and/or trainer, doesn't come out onto the court, the injured player who showed a symptom of a concussion must still sit a tick, or the coach must call a timeout, to keep him in the game. I am assuming that during the time interval to sit a tick, or during the timeout, a health care professional clears the player to continue playing in the game.

Discussion?

Showing signs of a concussion...really...did you go to school for this? Just because you fall down and hit your head doesn't mean you have a concussion. We need to be really really careful here.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Showing signs of a concussion...really...did you go to school for this? Just because you fall down and hit your head doesn't mean you have a concussion.

Goodwill, obviously, I don't know you from Adam, so if I'm way off-base, I apologize in advance. But you seem to be WAY up on a high horse today. Your comments in three different threads seem to be talking down to others.

WTF is your comment above supposed to be getting at? BillyMac gave a GREAT example of how the new rule might play out in a real game. The rule says if the player shows "signs, symptoms or behaviors" of a concussion, the player MUST be removed from the game.

Very few refs are medical doctors who went to school to recognize concussions, yet the rules MANDATE that if we see signs, symptoms or behaviors of a concussion (and they give us several examples, plus a long training video online) that we act on that.

Obviously falling down doesn't mean that you have a concussion. But we're not given a rule about HAVING a concussion. We're given a rule about the signs, symptoms and behaviors of a concussion (which, you may recall, they have given us several examples of, as well as a long training video online).

So if you're trying to be funny somehow, or if you don't realize that you sound like an elitist prick (which I've been called on this forum many times, although I still contend I'm not an elitist), then I apologize. Otherwise, I really think you need to realize that there are lots of people on this forum who have a lot of knowledge and are trying to dig deeper into the rule than simply realizing that falling down does not necessarily give one a concussion.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Goodwill, obviously, I don't know you from Adam, so if I'm way off-base, I apologize in advance. But you seem to be WAY up on a high horse today. Your comments in three different threads seem to be talking down to others.

WTF is your comment above supposed to be getting at? BillyMac gave a GREAT example of how the new rule might play out in a real game. The rule says if the player shows "signs, symptoms or behaviors" of a concussion, the player MUST be removed from the game.

Very few refs are medical doctors who went to school to recognize concussions, yet the rules MANDATE that if we see signs, symptoms or behaviors of a concussion (and they give us several examples, plus a long training video online) that we act on that.

Obviously falling down doesn't mean that you have a concussion. But we're not given a rule about HAVING a concussion. We're given a rule about the signs, symptoms and behaviors of a concussion (which, you may recall, they have given us several examples of, as well as a long training video online).

So if you're trying to be funny somehow, or if you don't realize that you sound like an elitist prick (which I've been called on this forum many times, although I still contend I'm not an elitist), then I apologize. Otherwise, I really think you need to realize that there are lots of people on this forum who have a lot of knowledge and are trying to dig deeper into the rule than simply realizing that falling down does not necessarily give one a concussion.

As someone who knows most people from Adam, let me just ask one question.

You're saying there's a training video online?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

As someone who knows most people from Adam, let me just ask one question.

You're saying there's a training video online?

Yes.

There's a link to it on the front page of nfhs.org

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

As someone who knows most people from Adam, ....

You're really en fuego today.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I don't know you from Adam.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Showing signs of a concussion...really...did you go to school for this? Just because you fall down and hit your head doesn't mean you have a concussion. We need to be really really careful here.

Not sure what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that since Billy isn't an MD he can't recognize the signs of a concussion? You're right, of course, that just because the kid gets hit in the head does not mean he has a concussion. However, if Billy sees the hit to the head, followed by the player getting back up and stumbling in a way he hasn't before, and there's no obvious reason for the stumbling...sounds to me like Billy needs to be really, really careful to do what's right for the kid here.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Showing signs of a concussion...really...did you go to school for this? Just because you fall down and hit your head doesn't mean you have a concussion. We need to be really really careful here.

Nope, Billy read the damn rule book instead. You should give it a shot because you obviously don't understand the application of the new rule that we've been given.

In the COMMENTS ON THE 2010-11 RULES REVISIONS at the back of the rulebook, we as officials are directed by the NFHS rulesmakers that "any player who exhibits signs, symptoms or behavior consistent with a concussion, such as loss of consciousness, headache, dizziness, confusion or balance problems, shall be immediately removed from play and shall not return until cleared by an appropriate health-care professional."

Yes, the FED sureashell wants us to be careful, but not in the way that you're suggesting. Their explicit instructions are "Officials, coaches and administrators should be looking for signs of concussion in all athletes and should immediately remove any suspected concussed athlete from play and make every effort to ensure a concussed athlete does not continue to participate."

Not only was your point completely wrong, it was the polar opposite of the instructions that the rules-makers have given us. Terrible advice!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Showing signs of a concussion...really...did you go to school for this?

I didn't have to go to school to learn this. It's all on page 75 of the NFHS 2010-11 Basketball Rulebook.

Check it out:

Common Symptoms of Concussion Include:
• headache
• fogginess
• difficulty concentrating
• easily confused
• slowed thought processes
• difficulty with memory
• nausea
• lack of energy, tiredness
• dizziness, poor balance
• blurred vision
• sensitive to light and sounds
• mood changes- irritable, anxious, or tearful

[Adam]

Judging by those symptoms, I'm pretty sure I have a concussion this afternoon.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Judging by those symptoms, I'm pretty sure I have a concussion this afternoon.

Only this afternoon?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Only this afternoon?

It's just worse today.

Oh, and shut up.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It's just worse today.

Oh, and shut up.

Now that I've got that first shut up behind me, it really feels like the season is here!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Now that I've got that first shut up behind me, it really feels like the season is here!

It's like watching the leaves fall.

[GoodwillRef]

What I am getting at is that we shouldn't all of a sudden go crazy and start thinking everyone has a concussion everytime they bump their heads. Let the medical staff on site do their jobs. (If I was a prick yesterday in my post I apologize, bad day at work!)