AP/Throw-in/Violation

[just another ref]

One could make the argument that a team is never penalized for a kick. The other team gets the ball. Where's the penalty? In the vast majority of cases, the other team already had the ball. Rather, it is a case of the team not being allowed to benefit from the kick.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Rather than conceiving that as a penalty for the violating team, we might consider it a benefit for the throwing team: the throwing team is entitled to an opportunity to put the ball in play legally.

I've always found it much easier just to simply accept what the rules say rather than going through this mind-numbing exercise of paralysis through analysis. Iow, just read NFHS rule 9-4 on a deliberately kicked ball and the accompanying penalty for it. And then apply it to rule 4-42-5 for an AP throw-in.

But that's just me......

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

One could make the argument that a team is never penalized for a kick.

One could also read NFHS rule 9-4 and watch that particular argument go down the ol' crapper.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by just another ref

One could make the argument that a team is never penalized for a kick.

What if the offensive team commits the violation? Then they are penalized with a loss of possession.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What if the offensive team commits the violation? Then they are penalized with a loss of possession.

What's the penalty when a defensive player causes the ball to go OOB? What's the penalty when an offensive player causes the ball to go OOB?


So what should happen on kicked ball, make the player who kicked the ball sit out for a minute?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

One could also read NFHS rule 9-4 and watch that particular argument go down the ol' crapper.

While their rules must be followed, their reasoning isn't infallible, JR. They aren't exactly the Council of Nicaea. They did give us that indefensible backcourt interp.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What's the penalty when a defensive player causes the ball to go OOB? What's the penalty when an offensive player causes the ball to go OOB?


So what should happen on kicked ball, make the player who kicked the ball sit out for a minute?

I have to admit, I'm not understanding your point. You said there's no penalty for a kicked ball. I can sort of understand that when the defense is guilty. They just stop the game and give the ball back to the team that had it.

But my point is that when the offense kicks the ball (or causes it to go out of bounds), there is an obvious penalty. The ball is given to the other team.

The penalty is never severe, like free throws or temporary disqualification; but there is a clear penalty nonetheless.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

While their rules must be followed, their reasoning isn't infallible, JR. They aren't exactly the Council of Nicaea....

As you probably know, infallibility didn't come up until the Vatican I, in 1870.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mbyron

As you probably know, infallibility didn't come up until the Vatican I, in 1870.

No, I think that was Viagara in 1998.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No, I think that was Viagara in 1998.

You're close; that was the great inphallibility dilemma.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're close; that was the great inphallibility dilemma.

Well done. Point to you, sir.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I have to admit, I'm not understanding your point. You said there's no penalty for a kicked ball. I can sort of understand that when the defense is guilty. They just stop the game and give the ball back to the team that had it.

But my point is that when the offense kicks the ball (or causes it to go out of bounds), there is an obvious penalty. The ball is given to the other team.

The penalty is never severe, like free throws or temporary disqualification; but there is a clear penalty nonetheless.

On a defensive kick, the defensive team often has a good chance at recovering the ball. The penalty removes that opportunity.

In general, throw-ins are more difficult than passes form inbounds locations as a result of only have a limited number of directions that the thrower has to pass the ball. I suppose the idea behind the AP throwin is that the team is allowed to get the ball inbounds (not necessarily to their own team) unless they mess it up....the defense can't prevent it from getting inbounds.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I have to admit, I'm not understanding your point. You said there's no penalty for a kicked ball. I can sort of understand that when the defense is guilty. They just stop the game and give the ball back to the team that had it.

But my point is that when the offense kicks the ball (or causes it to go out of bounds), there is an obvious penalty. The ball is given to the other team.

The penalty is never severe, like free throws or temporary disqualification; but there is a clear penalty nonetheless.

My point is that the offense is always more severely penalized for similar acts because they lose possession. Same thing when both teams violate on the first of 2 free throws. Offense loses a free throw attempt, defense is not hurt at all.