How many free throws?

[Dave Brost]

Hypothetical case for you guys. I know the answer, but do not know where to find it in the books. Break-away layup by A-1, with B-1 trailing. As A-1 goes up for layup, B-1 gives a shove in the back of A-1 for an intentional foul. The shot goes in. How many free throws? What about the same scenario, only at 3-pointer that goes in? Where is it in the books??

[BktBallRef]

It's listed in the Summary of Penalties for All Fouls
in the back of your rule book. Even though it's not found bwtween 1-1 and 10-6 doesn't mean it isn't a rule. We have to use supplements such as the Casebook, Basketball Rules Fundamentals, and the NFHS Basketball Signals to properly officiate the game.

3. Bonus free throw:
a. For seventh, eighth and ninth team foul each half, if first free throw is successful.
b. Beginning with 10th team foul each half whether or not first free throw is successful.
Two free throws if intentional or flagrant, plus ball for throw-in.

[dblref]

BktBallRef:

Not sure if I understand your answer. Because the ball went in and an intentional foul was called, are you saying the shooter gets the bonus shot and then the ball (for the intentional) at the point of the foul? I don't have my rule book with me (usually have a copy in the office).

BTW, regarding your comments in the "where's your sign" thread, I am in the Northern Virginia area and we had a large number of AAU games here this past weekend. It is amazing the comments you hear. Talk about not knowing the rules -- coaches, players, and of course the parents.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by dblref
BktBallRef:

Not sure if I understand your answer. Because the ball went in and an intentional foul was called, are you saying the shooter gets the bonus shot and then the ball (for the intentional) at the point of the foul? I don't have my rule book with me (usually have a copy in the office).

The baseket is good (or not) on it's own merits. The penalty for an IP foul is two shots and the ball.

So, in the play presented, count the basket, award two shots with no one on the line, then give the ball back to A "under" (yes, I know that's not technically correct) their own basket.

[Gary Brendemuehl]

From the Summary of Penalties for all fouls:

1. No free throws for...

2. One free throw if ...

3. Bonus free throw:...

4. Two free throws if intentional or flagrant, plus the ball for throw-in.

5. Fouled in the act of shooting and try or tap is unsuccessful:
a. Two free throws on two-point try or tap.
b. Three free throws on three-point try or tap.
Plus ball if intentional or flagrant.

6,7,8...


The summary does not have a specific case for an intentional foul in the act of shooting and the try or tap is successful, so the general case (#4 above) applies.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by dblref
BktBallRef:

Not sure if I understand your answer. Because the ball went in and an intentional foul was called, are you saying the shooter gets the bonus shot and then the ball (for the intentional) at the point of the foul? I don't have my rule book with me (usually have a copy in the office).

Bob and Gary are correct. Thank you gentlemen.

As Bob said, the basket is good, so count it. But we still have an intentional foul, so we shoot 2 FTs and A gets the ball back.

[Brian Watson]

And if it was a three and it went in you would flush the shot, give him two shots and the ball closest to where the foul occured.

Now, having said that, wasn't there a note added a year or two ago where if a three was unsuccessful, and the player was intentionally fouled, you gave him three shots and the ball?

[mikesears]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Bob and Gary are correct. Thank you gentlemen.

As Bob said, the basket is good, so count it. But we still have an intentional foul, so we shoot 2 FTs and A gets the ball back.

Isn't there a casebook play about this? Or am I thinking of previous posts on this topic?? It's all starting to get jumbled together

[Gary Brendemuehl]

Originally posted by Brian Watson

Now, having said that, wasn't there a note added a year or two ago where if a three was unsuccessful, and the player was intentionally fouled, you gave him three shots and the ball?

I'm not sure about the note, but doesn't #5 from my previous post cover it?

[WestCoastRef]

NFHS Officials Manual Rule 249,Pg 42

249. After an intentional personal foul or flagrant personal foul, no players are allowed along the lane. Administer 2 FT's. The throw-in is from the out-of-bounds spot nearest to where the foul occurred.

Brian, good question.. if we don't give him 3 FTs we are actually penalizing him because he would have had 3 FT if it were just a personal foul not just two - oh yeah and he would get the ball back. Somebody please help!

[Gary Brendemuehl]

See casebook 4.19.3A for the # of free throws for an intentional foul on an unsuccessful 3pt attempt:

4.19.3A. Play: B1 is charged with an intentional foul on A1 who is in the act of shooting: ... (c) an unsuccessful three-point try. Ruling:... In (c), A1 is awarded three free throws. In all situations following the free throws, Team A is awarded a throw-in at the out-of-bounds spot nearest the foul.

[Brian Watson]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gary Brendemuehl

Originally posted by Brian Watson

I'm not sure about the note, but doesn't #5 from my previous post cover it?

It does! I was just reading too fast, plus the case book backs it up.

[Dave Brost]

Thanks for all of the feedback on this question. My understanding of this situation was this: The shot itself has its own merit if it goes in. Thus, 2 or 3 points. If unsuccessful, the free throws are dictated by the location of the shooter. Again, 2 or 3 shots. With the intentional foul, the team will also get the ball at the closest spot to the foul.
However, I have been told by some top level officials that if either the 2 or 3-pointer is successful, only 1 free throw is awarded, plus the ball Out-of-bounds.
What gives??

[mikesears]

Originally posted by Dave Brost
Thanks for all of the feedback on this question. My understanding of this situation was this: The shot itself has its own merit if it goes in. Thus, 2 or 3 points. If unsuccessful, the free throws are dictated by the location of the shooter. Again, 2 or 3 shots. With the intentional foul, the team will also get the ball at the closest spot to the foul.
However, I have been told by some top level officials that if either the 2 or 3-pointer is successful, only 1 free throw is awarded, plus the ball Out-of-bounds.
What gives??

The top level officials haven't looked at a casebook or rulebook.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by mikesears

The top level officials haven't looked at a casebook or rulebook.

AND they obviously don't participate in any of the basketball officiating discussion boards!

Gary, if #5 didn't cover it, you've certainly covered it now.