Scheduling woes

[Danvrapp]

Here's the situation: last year, I worked mainly two conferences in my area, each making up roughly 45% of my schedule - a few stragglers from other conferences making up the last 10%. It also just so happens that these two conferences are the two best conferences in the area, and by far.

This year, however, I had an assignor (from one of the "lesser" conferences) contact me with about 10 games for this upcoming season. I went ahead and took them, with the fear of sounding not interested and getting a bad name with the assignor. However, when the assignor for one of the two "premier" conferences contacted me this morning, I felt chagrined that I could only take 5 games, and he sounded like he was doing his best to not be disappointed.

My point - would it have been acceptable to tell the assignor of the "lesser" conference that I'd like to wait for my schedule in the better conference before I commit to his games?

Advice would be appreciated!!!

[ChuckElias]

Absolutely. It helps if the better conferences give out schedules first. But I think the assignor would rather have you be up front and tell him that you're expecting some other games than get turn-backs.

At camp this summer, they told us to be completely up front with assignors. Tell them that you do a couple other leagues and need to get your schedule from them first. Or tell them that you'll take his games, with the clear understanding that you'll be turning some back if you get games on those same dates from your "better" league.

That's how it works for me with my HS and college schedules. I turn in open availability sheets, but my HS assignor knows that if I get a college game that I will turn back his game. I think I'm lucky in that respect. Everybody around here understands that if you have the opportunity to do a higher level game, you should take it.

Chuck

[bob jenkins]

I'm going to disagree a little with Chuck.

"A better conference" is not a good reason, imho, to turn back games at the same level. If it's college vs. HS (or V vs. Frosh), that *might* be acceptable (I think it is; not every assigner agrees).

If you are going to do this (and again, I'd suggest it only for a increased level, not just for a different conference at the same level), you should ask the first assigner what he'd like you to do -- take the games or wait.

Another option (not welcomed by all assigners, so use with caution) -- turn in different "open dates" to each group -- every 10th day to the "lesser" group, for example. Then, once you get the schedules, go back with any remaining open dates to both groups. At least around here, it's pretty easy to fill up any open dates once the season starts and the assigners get turn-backs.

[JRutledge]

I totally agree with Bob as it relates to what we have to go through where we live. I think what you need to find out or figure out what the rules or expectations of the area you live. I believe that most areas would agree with Bob and I that this is not a good practice. You accepted the game, do it unless you are moving up or having a job or family emergency. If the assignor finds out that you took a game from someone else and are trying to now give back games for that reason, you might not get another schedule next year or not be considered for as many games. You should have not accepted those games in the first place if you thought another assignor would come calling.

No matter what you do, be honest and approach it as if you have very little rights in the matter. The way you handle this could affect your career negatively or positively. But I think that this is very dangerous practice unless you know something about the area you live better than us.

Peace

[Danvrapp]

Thanks for all the input. I do (and did) plan on doing these "lesser" games, I was just curious if there was a way I could have told the first assignor to hold his horses, without having him write me off.

Learn something new every day, I suppose.

[LarryS]

Originally posted by Danvrapp
Thanks for all the input. I do (and did) plan on doing these "lesser" games, I was just curious if there was a way I could have told the first assignor to hold his horses, without having him write me off.

Learn something new every day, I suppose.

I figured you would do the right thing. Which assignor have you worked for the longest...the "newer" assignors should understand you have multiple commitments to honor. If I was assigning games and was told by an official that he wanted to wait until he had gotten his schedule from someone with whom he had a longer relationship, I would respect that. I would have to tell him that I would wait as long as possible to schedule my games and he needed to understand I may not have much left when he knows his availability.

I may be old school, but I would much rather have someone be up-front with me even if they knew I might not like the answer than someone who intentionally created work for me for self-centered reasons. Good character carries a lot of weight with me and I have been known to bend over backwards for someone who demonstrates it in their dealings with me. You can never be too ethical.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by LarryS


I figured you would do the right thing. Which assignor have you worked for the longest...the "newer" assignors should understand you have multiple commitments to honor. If I was assigning games and was told by an official that he wanted to wait until he had gotten his schedule from someone with whom he had a longer relationship, I would respect that. I would have to tell him that I would wait as long as possible to schedule my games and he needed to understand I may not have much left when he knows his availability.

I may be old school, but I would much rather have someone be up-front with me even if they knew I might not like the answer than someone who intentionally created work for me for self-centered reasons. Good character carries a lot of weight with me and I have been known to bend over backwards for someone who demonstrates it in their dealings with me. You can never be too ethical.

The problem with that Larry is that not everyone will look at it that way. Assignors of conferences have a huge job at their disposal. If an assignor has 10 schools for example, they probably assign all levels. Freshman, Sophmore, JV, Varsity and sometimes both Boy's and Girl's Basketball. That might mean that an assignor has 100 or more officials in all levels working for them. Now this one official chooses to turn back 5 games for "better" games. Now imagine that 8 officials did the same thing. Now 8 X 5= 40 games. Now an assignor has to fill 40 games with new officials, experienced officials, "scratched" officials, big time game officials or officials that might not want to work at certain schools for some reason.

You are right honesty might be the best policy, but if one official is allowed to do this, it might affect what the other officials will do. You honestly think an assignor is going to be happy about this? Now we are not talking about officials that are moving up, we are talking about officials taking games at the very same level. I know I would not be happy and might think about that the next time I am assigning games to people that want to work my league.

Peace

[LarryS]

Hold on JRutledge...

I NEVER said I would be happy about it, I said I would respect him for his honesty and added that I may not have anything for him when he called. I understand assignors have a tough job and would never do it.

I also remember that this is "a lesser conference". Given that, for every official that is honest there are going to be several that are dishonest, take the games and turn them back later. That means he has to do the same scheduling twice. The assignor may very well think twice about calling in the future, but how long do you think he will keep calling if you continously turn back games?

One other thing, honesty is ALWAYS the best policy. It may not result in the the desired outcome, but it is always the best policy. There is a word for someone who is occassionally less than totally honest...LIAR. In my dealing with people (on and off the court), that type of person has already demonstrated that he is unethical and not to be trusted. Why would I want to do business with them?

I would always rather deal with a trustworthy, ethical person than someone without those traits...but that is just me, as you said, others may feel differently.

[devdog69]

I think we could all agree, or at least most of us, that this is not an easy question with a 'set in stone' solution that will work for all situations. Moving up levels is one thing, which is what Chuck described, and I believe that is acceptable for the most part with most assignors. The situation Dan is in, however, is different and really must be handled very carefully. I have a similar situation and here is how I handle it, right or wrong. I basically work for five assignors or commissioners and have them ranked in my mind for the following reasons.
1. Larger schools, better quality ball, 3-man crews with quality partners, and the best pay in the area.
2. Medium size schools, decent ball, work 3-man and pay is fair.
3. Medium size schools with intense rivalries, work 2-man and get a little more pay.
4. Smaller schools, travel is excessive with no mileage.
5. No problem with the quality of ball and schools but the pay stinks, we work 3 games, one JV and two varsity for $85.
6. Neighboring state, pay is better but since I am out of state they give me leftovers and I do the same with them, works out fine.

My problem is slightly different since 1-5 send out their prospective schedules within 10 days of each other and three of them actually get together and compare notes before sending, so I get accept/reject contracts where I can compare and choose somewhat. My problem arises because I have one assignor who assigns #3 and #5, I like working in league #3 but, and I know it's not the assignors fault, I am appalled that #5 thinks they can continue to pay us with peanuts and get quality guys. But, what do you say when the assignor sends you games from both conferences? I am afraid that if I turn down all #5 games he will stop giving me #3 games. I have been taking two or three dates from #5 and turning the others down, while doing 10-12 in #3.

[Edited by devdog69 on Oct 2nd, 2002 at 05:04 PM]

[JRutledge]

Working for a "lesser" conference is a value judgement. Not everyone might agree that a conference is better than another conference. I can name two in my area that the assignors think are "better" than other conferences and many officials have no desire to work with those assignors. So you have to be very careful about what some mike call a "lesser conference."

Just because you are honest is not going to save you. You can be completely honest and not be working at all. It is not about telling the truth or lying at all. This is about giving back games and thinking that it is a good practice. As I stated before, this really is about the area and the assignor you are dealing with. I know someone that got banded from a conference and the officials was doing a college game in place of the HS game that he gave back. Now he was honest and the assignor for this conference wants nothing to do with this official. So the moral of the story, be very careful before you get in the habit of this practice.

Like my mother used to say, you can be right and be dead.

Peace

[rainmaker]

We don't have to deal with this too much around here during the season, because all our leagues get refs from one association, and our commissioner works with the college assignors directly for those folks who are at that level.

Our commissioner does come right out and tell anyone that asks, "No other assignors during the season. PBOA only during the season, excpt for Satuday and Sunday." Not every sticks to that religiously, but everyone knows where they stand.

From reading the various responses above, it sounds like it depends on the personalities and MO's of the various assignors in your area. Talk to a couple of other refs who work more than one league, and ask how they handle it. Find out what each assignor wants, and work within that.