Appropriateness

[Mark Padgett]

I once commented to Earl Strom after a game that I thought he missed a call. He bi-atch slapped me.

[tref]

How would you handle the same sitch when you're working off-season ball??

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

How would you handle the same sitch when you're working off-season ball??

Personally, I would ask, "So did you see anything?"

I can get a good idea gauge of an official from what he has to say about my game.

[bainsey]

The problem is, if you keep the tidbit to yourself, that official loses an opportunity to improve. Personally, I'd rather have an uncomfortable moment of feedback than have the constructive critic keep it to himself.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bainsey

The problem is, if you keep the tidbit to yourself, that official loses an opportunity to improve. Personally, I'd rather have an uncomfortable moment of feedback than have the constructive critic keep it to himself.

There opportunity to improve has nothing to do with me telling them something. Actually if they want to improve then they should seek information, not give it unsolicited. If you do not ask they might not want to hear what I have to say or want to debate over the validity of what is said. Never should you just give advice in something like officiating if the people are not asking and you do not know them. It is a waste of breathe to give information someone does not even want or care about. And there are a lot of folks who couldn't care less what you have to tell them. It has little or nothing to do with being uncomfortable, it has to do with saying something they will get offended by because they do not respect you or want to hear what you have to say. This is why I only give advice to those that seek it.

Peace

[Upward ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There opportunity to improve has nothing to do with me telling them something. Actually if they want to improve then they should seek information, not give it unsolicited. If you do not ask they might not want to hear what I have to say or want to debate over the validity of what is said. Never should you just give advice in something like officiating if the people are not asking and you do not know them. It is a waste of breathe to give information someone does not even want or care about. And there are a lot of folks who couldn't care less what you have to tell them. It has little or nothing to do with being uncomfortable, it has to do with saying something they will get offended by because they do not respect you or want to hear what you have to say. This is why I only give advice to those that seek it.

Peace

Almost all of the unsolicited advice I get is from the coaches ! Although occasionally I do get some from the league commisioner's wife.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bainsey

The problem is, if you keep the tidbit to yourself, that official loses an opportunity to improve. Personally, I'd rather have an uncomfortable moment of feedback than have the constructive critic keep it to himself.

From your POV, this makes sense... but from most people's own point of view, what they see or know is right - and if it differs from someone else - then that someone else is wrong. And, at the same time, the guy you're talking to is looking at it the same way. Unless you know someone's a green rookie, it's highly likely you're not going to be received well.

Consider this. I was on the field of a softball game about 4 months ago. After the game another uninvolved umpire informed me that I'd missed a call when a pitch struck a girl on the hands. Said umpire approached us calmly and nicely and just as was suggested above told us we did a great job. He then informed partner and I that "the hands are part of the bat", and the ball that hit the girl should have been ruled a foul ball. He then went on to commisserate with us that it's a tough call to make when a girl is crying over it, but sometimes we get paid to make the hard decisions.

From HIS point of view, he was right, and he was "helping" us by imparting his wisdom. Now I'm sure YOU would never approach an unknown official with something you weren't right about ... but don't we all think we're right most of the time?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Now I'm sure YOU would never approach an unknown official with something you weren't right about ... but don't we all think we're right most of the time?

Perhaps, but if you keep it to yourself, I don't learn anything. If you pass along your wisdom, I likely will cease getting it wrong. There's always a chance that I saw something differently than the viewpoint passed to me, but those moments you can take in stride.

The thing I've come to learn is that the post-game "good game" or "nice job" comments from your partner are quite meaningless. What they're basically saying is, "we got through that one," but these friendly offerings are no evaluation of your work.

Instead, we generally have to wait until the end of the season to get the truth, in the form of our evaluations. This is where you want to yell, "where was THIS information two months ago?!" You can't take corrective action on information withheld, and that's the most frustrating part of it all.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Perhaps, but if you keep it to yourself, I don't learn anything. If you pass along your wisdom, I likely will cease getting it wrong. There's always a chance that I saw something differently than the viewpoint passed to me, but those moments you can take in stride. The thing I've come to learn is that the post-game "good game" or "nice job" comments from your partner are quite meaningless. What they're basically saying is, "we got through that one," but these friendly offerings are no evaluation of your work. Instead, we generally have to wait until the end of the season to get the truth, in the form of our evaluations. This is where you want to yell, "where was this information two months ago?!" You can't take corrective action on information withheld, and that's the most frustrating part of it all.

I had the same frustration a few years ago, but my attitude has changed. Now I don't passively wait for advice or constructive criticism. Instead I'm proactive and seek out constructive criticism. Any time anybody sees me work, even the junior varsity officials who stay for the first half of my varsity game, I always ask, "So, what did you see?". Nobody escapes getting this question asked of them. Some respond. Some don't. How does that Serenity Prayer go? Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bainsey

The thing I've come to learn is that the post-game "good game" or "nice job" comments from your partner are quite meaningless. What they're basically saying is, "we got through that one," but these friendly offerings are no evaluation of your work.

Agreed, if it's your partner. I thought the OP was (from the standpoint of the official working the game) "just some random guy from the stands who claims to be an official."

(and I think we've al had them come out to try to give us advice)

[Judtech]

What role do you play in the scenario? Are you there as a fan, evaluator or just killing time? If you are there as a fan then it would not be appropriate to say anything. If you are just a neutral observer, I wouldn't say anything unless it came up in conversation. Who is to say they blew the call and knew they blew the call? What good does someone coming out of the blue to state what they know as the obvious?
It can be a fine line. IMOS, I only comment to officials on good calls that went against a team I have a vested interest in, and then agree with my wife that the officials were horrible!! (Hey, the sofa is only SO comfortable!) As an evaluator, I will ask about a play before I tell them what was right/wrong. i.e. " As a neutral observer, I just let it go unless the subject is brought up by the officials.