HS Associations - Training Programs

[JRutledge]

Billy,

All I am saying is your system would possibly violate a lot of state statues to the laws. Which is why many associations specifically changed their constitutions to avoid such liability issues. Still I would not want to be assigned by an associations that I must belong to to work. And for a group to decide who should and should not work certain levels just is silly to me. But then again if that is what you have been exposed to you would think that is OK. I just like our system better. I am sure you think your system is OK too. Nothing wrong with that at all. It is what it is.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Possibly violate a lot of state statues.

Local IAABO boards here in Connecticut only very recently got into assigning AAU games. At first, our statewide leadership wanted to take over all AAU assignments, and wanted language in our IAABO bylaws that "prohibited" our members from working AAU games that were not assigned by our local IAABO commissioners.

Several local AAU organizations complained that they should be able to assign their own games, at their own fee, with whomever they wanted to assign games to, as they had done in the past.

We also had complaints from some of our members who had had "cozy" agreements with local AAU organizations in the past, and had made substantial amounts of money with such agreements. Some of these officials actually served as "assigners" for these local AAU organizations. Members didn't want these "cozy" assignments opened up to a larger group of officials.

Although I was not privy to what transpired behind closed doors inside smoke filled rooms, I kept hearing about "attorney general", "lawsuits", "injuctions", and "independent contractors" through the "grapevine". We now have a temporary, unwritten policy in place that "discourages" our members from accepting AAU assignments from someone other than our own commissioner. However, there is no written bylaw that "prohibits" us from accepting such assignments. Our leadership will look at this issue again next season.

I believe that this is the type of situation that JRutledge is referring to. Somewhere, Jimmy Hoffa is rolling over in is grave under some plastic junk in a landfill.

[JRutledge]

Billy,

I am only talking about high school assignments. I am not talking about AAU or non-high school season events. Those around here are assigned by individuals that the leagues or tournaments directors give that responsibility over to a person. I know in basketball there is no association mandate or involvement from the top level for these kinds of tournaments. We might distribute the information if we find out a league or tournament needs officials, but nothing the executive board plays a role in.

I am sure it is different across the country, but the Illinois High School Association has to be careful with things they do so they do not violate state law. For example the do not have an evaluation system or observers program that is run by them because they would violate laws and make themselves the employee of officials. So the only things they do are license officials and assign them to their post season games. They do not do things to require training or other evaluation to move up the latter.

And this is why in football and basketball there are no associations that involve directly in signing and if they are they are careful to not make a distinction clear you do not have to be a member. Other organizations in other sports have some similar relationship, but the example I gave you was a baseball organization. Their situation scared the crap out of all other organizations and many bolted from that organization because of the legal issues.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Situation scared the crap out of all other organizations and many bolted from that organization because of the legal issues.

I believe that our recent AAU situation "scared the crap" out of our local and state IAABO leadership.

The intention of the leadership was to completely take over AAU officiating all over the state, sign a statewide contact with the state AAU leadership, similar to our statewide high school contract with our state interscholastic sports governing body, and turn the AAU game assignment responsibilities over to our local IAABO commissioners. They were planning to accomplish this by prohibiting any member from accepting assignments from a local AAU assigner, with strong penalties in place if anyone chose to accept such assignments. There were also going to be very severe penalties in place if any IAABO member made such assignments as a local AAU assigner. Certainly a strongarm tactic.

Then our local and state IAABO leaders came to the realization that local AAU organizations, as well as local IAABO members with "cozy" agreements, wouldn't go along quietly with these strongarm tactics. Restraint of trade injunctions can be very scary, so the local and state IAABO leadership backed off a little. As I stated in an earlier post, we now have an announced, unwritten policy in place that "discourages" our members from accepting AAU assignments from someone other than our own commissioner. It was announced for the "good of the board", in other words, "be a good board member". However, and this was also announced, there is no local, or state, IAABO policy that prohibits us from accepting such assignments. That certainly is a "giant step" back from what they had intended to do earlier.

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And for a group to decide who should and should not work certain levels just is silly to me.

Peace

How is this different from an independent assigner and his two evaluators deciding who works games?

When I was in my previous board, assignments came from the board's assigner, who was elected by the board, and the school's agreed with the choice. I wasn't paid by the board, I could decline assignments and I paid my fee to the board following the season. In no way was the board my "employer." I'm not sure what legal ramifications you are talking about, because I'm familiar with a system similar to Billy's and there have been no legal problems.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by sseltser

I'm not sure what legal ramifications you are talking about, because I'm familiar with a system similar to Billy's and there have been no legal problems.

Restraint of trade laws probably vary from state to state. JRutledge is from Illinois, the "Land of Lincoln, and, "The Land of Rod Blagojevich".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Restraint of trade laws probably vary from state to state. JRutledge is from Illinois, the "Land of Lincoln, and, "The Land of Rod Blagojevich".

Billy I have been an official for 15 years and this was the same then (when a Republican Governor was in office). This is a heavy Union State and a lot of laws are here to protect workers from being taken advantage of. I am sure that is the origin of such laws because they go after organizations not individuals. This is why when we are paid we often fill out W-9 forms for many schools to make it clear they are playing us as an independent contractor. Also our issues were not just about who pays you, it was also what control they have over your schedule. The organization I was referring to also was controlling who an official worked for. If you are an independent contractor, you decide that, not an organization.

Also there was a state our west that was going through a legal challenge to their laws because organizations were paying their memberships. This was similar to what we were going through, but there is probably more case law or president to not have that kind of control. This is probably why our IAABO is non-existent in many things here.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I believe that our recent AAU situation "scared the crap" out of our local and state IAABO leadership.

The intention of the leadership was to completely take over AAU officiating all over the state, sign a statewide contact with the state AAU leadership, similar to our statewide high school contract with our state interscholastic sports governing body, and turn the AAU game assignment responsibilities over to our local IAABO commissioners. They were planning to accomplish this by prohibiting any member from accepting assignments from a local AAU assigner, with strong penalties in place if anyone chose to accept such assignments. There were also going to be very severe penalties in place if any IAABO member made such assignments as a local AAU assigner. Certainly a strongarm tactic.

Then our local and state IAABO leaders came to the realization that local AAU organizations, as well as local IAABO members with "cozy" agreements, wouldn't go along quietly with these strongarm tactics. Restraint of trade injunctions can be very scary, so the local and state IAABO leadership backed off a little. As I stated in an earlier post, we now have an announced, unwritten policy in place that "discourages" our members from accepting AAU assignments from someone other than our own commissioner. It was announced for the "good of the board", in other words, "be a good board member". However, and this was also announced, there is no local, or state, IAABO policy that prohibits us from accepting such assignments. That certainly is a "giant step" back from what they had intended to do earlier.

So if I do not want to be a member of IAABO, can I still work games for your assignors?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We often fill out W-9 forms for many schools to make it clear they are playing us as an independent contractor.

When I started officiating about thirty years ago, we were only asked to fill out W-9's at the state technical schools. Then about fifteen years ago, were were asked to fill out W-9's at some "big city" schools. Now we are filling out these forms at about more than 50% of the schools that we service. Many of our members have become concerned about security regarding our Social Security Numbers. In many cases we are asked to complete these forms at the table, where they sit, open for anyone to see, until the end of the game, or, at best, halftime. We don't know where they go after the game.

Identify theft has become quite common. How is this handled in other parts of the country?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So if I do not want to be a member of IAABO, can I still work games for your assignors?

Absolutely not if you're talking about high school games here in the "Land of Steady Habits". As I've already stated in an earlier post, IAABO is a 100% IAABO state in the eyes of our state interscholastic sports governing body (CIAC). All high school games in the state are assigned by local (county) IAABO-hired commissioners.

On the other hand, there is nothing keeping you from working travel games, recreation games, some middle school games, and some AAU games, that are assigned by "independent" assigners.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When I started officiating about thirty years ago, we were only asked to fill out W-9's at the state technical schools. Then about fifteen years ago, were were asked to fill out W-9's at some "big city" schools. Now we are filling out these forms at about more than 50% of the schools that we service. Many of our members have become concerned about security regarding our Social Security Numbers. In many cases we are asked to complete these forms at the table, where they sit, open for anyone to see, until the end of the game, or, at best, halftime. We don't know where they go after the game.

Identify theft has become quite common. How is this handled in other parts of the country?

Well if we do not fill out the forms we will not get paid. I only fill them out when a person can get them quickly. But in some cases we have to send the information well before we get to the site.


Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Absolutely not if you're talking about high school games here in the "Land of Steady Habits". As I've already stated in an earlier post, IAABO is a 100% IAABO state in the eyes of our state interscholastic sports governing body (CIAC). All high school games in the state are assigned by local (county) IAABO-hired commissioners.

On the other hand, there is nothing keeping you from working travel games, recreation games, some middle school games, and some AAU games, that are assigned by "independent" assigners.

It's frightening that an official can have 20+ years of experience working good HS varsity games in a non-IAABO area and pretty much not be able to continue his career in Connecticut. Who with that kind of experience (in their right mind) would be willing to come in and work 8 more years before having full varsity status?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's frightening that an official can have 20+ years of experience working good HS varsity games in a non-IAABO area and pretty much not be able to continue his career in Connecticut. Who with that kind of experience (in their right mind) would be willing to come in and work 8 more years before having full varsity status?

Not me. That is why I asked. And I am pretty sure that some JV ball is better around here than a good part of Connecticut. Not saying, just saying.

Peace

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not me. That is why I asked. And I am pretty sure that some JV ball is better around here than a good part of Connecticut. Not saying, just saying.

Peace

Hey, what are you saying?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's frightening that an official can have 20+ years of experience working good HS varsity games in a non-IAABO area and pretty much not be able to continue his career in Connecticut. Who with that kind of experience (in their right mind) would be willing to come in and work 8 more years before having full varsity status?

Actually four years at the least. If you're really that good, I'm sure that you would get a varsity loaded "split" schedule after only four years. Our commissioner has that power, if you're really that good. Still frightening, but maybe less so.