HS Associations - Training Programs

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have a question for you Billy about IAABO. We have an IAABO chapter in our area that we can join. But because IAABO has no significance in our area most people never join or have a reason to join. Here is the actual question for you.

If I were not for some reason move to an IAABO state or area where being a member was required and I have not previously had membership in IAABO. Would I start at the sub-varsity level automatically or would I have the opportunity to work some varsity as I have over 10 years at that level. Or would I be given some sort of consideration if I was an IAABO member even though that organization does no assigning or has any say in what levels I work? How would I be able to share my experience as a varsity official if I am a member if no one in that Chapter seems to know for sure what I have worked other than what I would tell them on some level?

For the record this is a serious question, but I am not in a position to move at all. Just wondering what you do with guys like me that might have even worked the highest of levels but did not do it in your structure?

Peace

Jeff--When I was in VT [an IAABO state] they allowed transfers along with letters from assignors, board secretaries, etc that indicated years of experience, etc. Some guys transferred in and started working varsity right away. Sometimes geographic location plays a role. You may have to have passed the IAABO exams to allow for a transfer. VT had the IAABO refresher test which was essentially a review session conducted in various sections of the state. This was how the VT board did things. Each board or state under IAABO auspices might have a different M.O.--Paul

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Actually four years at the least. If you're really that good, I'm sure that you would get a varsity loaded "split" schedule after only four years. Our commissioner has that power, if you're really that good. Still frightening, but maybe less so.

You're kidding, right? 4 years of low level basketball? I know it's important to pay your dues, but I've paid them, just not in your state.

I'm sure many (including me) would simply pack it in rather than enter a system where a quick placement evaluation wasn't done. 4 years? In most places, 4 years is enough to go from rookie to varsity official.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

You're kidding, right? 4 years of low level basketball? I know it's important to pay your dues, but I've paid them, just not in your state.

I'm sure many (including me) would simply pack it in rather than enter a system where a quick placement evaluation wasn't done. 4 years? In SoCal, 4 years is enough to go from HS rookie to D1.

There, fixed it for you.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by grunewar

There, fixed it for you.

That is the gift that keeps on giving.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is the gift that keeps on giving.

Peace

All we need now is a picture of the squirrel.

[CLH]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Actually four years at the least. If you're really that good, I'm sure that you would get a varsity loaded "split" schedule after only four years. Our commissioner has that power, if you're really that good. Still frightening, but maybe less so.

Four years? you're kidding right?

I was ranked #2 in chapter after four years...I was 23 and was crew chief in the Regional Finals for the next 3 years, along with working an NCAA schedule...Four years really? Sounds like your more concerned about protecting seniority than cultivating real talent. Just my opinion, not the gospel

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is the gift that keeps on giving.

Peace

Ed Zackery!

Originally Posted by RichMSN

All we need now is a picture of the squirrel.

Noooo!

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by CLH

Four years? you're kidding right?

I was ranked #2 in chapter after four years...I was 23 and was crew chief in the Regional Finals for the next 3 years, along with working an NCAA schedule...Four years really? Sounds like your more concerned about protecting seniority than cultivating real talent. Just my opinion, not the gospel

You have a long ways to go to catch up with Diebler.

[CLH]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

You have a long ways to go to catch up with Diebler.

Hey man, I'm trying...I'm trying....

[tomegun]

I didn't read every post in this thread, but I wanted to respond because I have knowledge of several things mentioned.

First of all, I was part of the IAABO board in DC and I saw Scott Foster one time while I lived there. Unless things have changed drastically over the last three years I doubt that board resembles a NBA staff, especially since he has moved up among NBA officials.

Rut, I was an official who moved from a non-IAABO state to an IAABO state. I want to say right off the bat that I think IAABO is just a middle man and most associations worth anything have training. When I moved to Maryland things went like this:

• I went to a camp before I moved to possibly get hired in a JC conference. I was hired.
• When I moved I worked a few games for the IAABO "recreation" assigner for my area before the season started.
• I worked 1 JV game for the regular assigner and had no other games scheduled. Someone was watching me.
• I wasn't used to not working during that time of year so I contacted the assigner for the DC IAABO chapter and he told me he wanted to see me work.
• I drove an hour across town to work 6 minutes of a 12-year old game. He said thanks and I will be in touch. At the time I was kind of pissed because I drove so far, in bad weather, for such a short time on the court. My car was still warm when I got back in it!
• The next day the assigner from DC called me and loaded me up with a bunch of schools I had never heard of. Literally 5 minutes later the IAABO assigner from Maryland called me to give me Varsity games.
• I was honest with both and ended up working for both boards for the next 3 seasons - I probably did less than 5 games during that time that were not varsity although the few times I did I was glad to get home earlier. As far as I know I'm still the only person to do that since then.

The original assigner was replaced by the "recreation" assigner after my first season there and he is still a friend. Oh, those schools I had never heard of were schools from the Catholic league - one of the best leagues in the country.

I think we need to worry more about the product we put on the floor instead of the amount of years an official has been part of an association. I would think an official like Rut would be OK regardless of where he moved. I know you can come out to Vegas and be OOOOOOKKKKKKK.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I think we need to worry more about the product we put on the floor instead of the amount of years an official has been part of an association. I would think an official like Rut would be OK regardless of where he moved. I know you can come out to Vegas and be OOOOOOKKKKKKK.

Nobody said otherwise. But to tell an official that under no circumstances will he be a varsity official for 4 years is ridiculous.

When I moved to a city around 12 years ago, I joined a baseball association. I had a resume and experience, but I wasn't expecting to be handed anything -- all I wanted was a chance to show my ability and let them decide where I belonged -- and I was scheduled to work a preseason varsity scrimmage with one of the big dogs of the association. The association president came and watched me work for about 3 innings. From there, I was moved into the group of varsity officials and worked a full varsity schedule THAT SEASON.

If I'm told that if I'm really good it may only take 4 years to "move up" to a level I've been working a long time, what's the motivation? And yes, I do think it's mainly to protect the people who grew up there, as if that alone makes them more entitled to the best games. As you said, shouldn't the best product be on the floor?

[Judtech]

One thing I think that may be missing from this discussion is the geographical area that people are working in. There are more people in the Wheaton IL area then probably the STATE of Iowa (Ok, you may have to throw Naperville in there!) Here in the Commonwealth N. VA has a much denser population than SW and Central VA. So associations from N. VA can have 'stricter' rules b/c there are more officials to chose from. Whereas in the less populous areas of the state, associations take who they can get and train them 'on the fly'. If you put up too many hoops for them to jump through you will scare potential officials off and then not have enough to cover the games you are contratec to cover.
Where I work we have local assigning boards who are contrated by various conferences to provide 'independent contrator's' to officiate their games. We are responsible for taking our own 'contributions' to the IRS out and since the board reports its 'income' the officials had better to it or The Men In Black may show up on their door!!!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by CLH

Sounds like your more concerned about protecting seniority than cultivating real talent. Just my opinion, not the gospel.

Seniority has very little to do with game assignments. Rankings, based on ratings, dictate game assignments; number, level, and quality. Ratings are based on peer ratings (80%), refresher exam (5%), meeting attendance (5%), and availability (10%).

Peer ratings come from everyone who has seen you officiate. In a typical junior varsity/varsity double header, you usually get three ratings, from your partner, and from the two officials in the game before, or after, yours.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Judtech

One thing I think that may be missing from this discussion is the geographical area that people are working in. There are more people in the Wheaton IL area then probably the STATE of Iowa (Ok, you may have to throw Naperville in there!)

Actually Wheaton only has about 50,000 and Naperville has about 130,000. And to use those two towns as places I work games in is very misleading. I am lucky if I get a single game in either town and these are two towns that are in a much larger area. I belong to 3 different basketball organizations and we pull from a larger area. I am the Basketball Division President of one of those associations and that association pulls from many towns in the larger Chicago area. That association has about 120 members total (in basketball only) and everyone works for all kinds of levels and for different kinds of people. The other organizations I do not believe have 100 members each in their basketball division memberships. None of the executive boards decide who works what level that is for the assignors to decide of those conferences. And none hire an assignor to work for the association. We have assignors that are members, but they make it known they will hire whomever they want to and membership to the organization is not necessary. And that would be silly to do that on their part as many conferences are spread out to places that members to an association might not live or have easy access to. I will bet that IAABO in Connecticut is probably larger than the three organizations I currently hold membership in at this time. And for the record there are 96 different recognized official's associations by the IHSA. Also the purpose of those organizations from the IHSA's point of view is simply to train officials to make officiating better across the state. Any contract for a contest is between the school and the official. Assignors do not really have a stake in the assignments as the schools do. That is why they hire an assignor to decide who works the games, but if you violate those contracts you do so with the school. All the assignor can do is not hire you again, but the IHSA has a fine system where you would have to pay the school.

My question about his was just to understand why it was different. We had an IAABO board/organization/association in our area, but there are no independent meetings or independent training. It is mostly an option for organizations to pay into the membership and you will get their literature if you join. But you will not have to attend any meetings or go through a training process. For a guy like me to move to another IAABO group, I would have nothing to show for my membership. At least as far as I can tell.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I will bet that IAABO in Connecticut is probably larger than the three organizations I currently hold membership in at this time.

My local (county) board: 300 members, serving 70 high schools.

Note: On a real busy night, like Friday night, we barely have enough officials to cover all games. Freshman/Junior varsity doubleheaders are often assigned. Throw in some injuries to officials, add flu season, pile up some makeup games due to a snow storm, and we're in trouble.