OT--I didn't like this

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm sorry, but while I would probably never use that particular tool, the bottom line for me is it worked.

Ok, first let me say that I know this is not the message you intended, but it is present in your post...this is a very dangerous statement - at least in my mind. And it's why we have so many officials who simply make up their own ways of dealing with situations rather than following the proscribed rules and mechanics.

The fact that it "worked" does NOT justify unprofessional conduct from an official. The ends do not justify the means. Like it or not, we are held to a higher standard. To do things like this umpire did - or make the comments that Mr. Padgett likes to make - is contrary to the officials code of ethics that we all agree to abide by when we put on the uniform. and believe me, I have learned the hard way that - in the long run - these types of antics don't work. They will always come back to haunt you at some future time.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The fact that it "worked" does NOT justify unprofessional conduct from an official. The ends do not justify the means. Like it or not, we are held to a higher standard. To do things like this umpire did - or make the comments that Mr. Padgett likes to make - is contrary to the officials code of ethics that we all agree to abide by when we put on the uniform. and believe me, I have learned the hard way that - in the long run - these types of antics don't work. They will always come back to haunt you at some future time.

Amen! Wise words.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Ok, first let me say that I know this is not the message you intended, but it is present in your post...this is a very dangerous statement - at least in my mind. And it's why we have so many officials who simply make up their own ways of dealing with situations rather than following the proscribed rules and mechanics.

The fact that it "worked" does NOT justify unprofessional conduct from an official. The ends do not justify the means. Like it or not, we are held to a higher standard. To do things like this umpire did - or make the comments that Mr. Padgett likes to make - is contrary to the officials code of ethics that we all agree to abide by when we put on the uniform. and believe me, I have learned the hard way that - in the long run - these types of antics don't work. They will always come back to haunt you at some future time.

You're correct, rocky.
1. It's not what i meant to say.
2. It's what i actually did say.
3. It's unprofessional, even if I can understand the impulse.

I still stand by the fact that it's more unprofessional for an official to participate in such a contest and publicly critique the umpire. The OP didn't actually admit to such, but I'm inferring it from his post. If he did not, and only allowed his teammates to engage in such behavior, then it's slightly less unprofessional so I will slighly apologize.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I still stand by the fact that it's more unprofessional for an official to participate in such a contest and publicly critique the umpire. The OP didn't actually admit to such, but I'm inferring it from his post. If he did not, and only allowed his teammates to engage in such behavior, then it's slightly less unprofessional so I will slighly apologize.

The play in question was a bang-bang play at first. I was coaching 3rd base at the time and didn't have a great look either way. Couldn't tell you if our runner was safe or out.

I slightly accept your slight apology

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bas2456

The play in question was a bang-bang play at first. I was coaching 3rd base at the time and didn't have a great look either way. Couldn't tell you if our runner was safe or out.

I slightly accept your slight apology

You still didn't address my assumption directly. I'll change now, and assume that you weren't participating in chiding the official; at least on that particular play.

I'm a little testy about this subject this summer due to a situation here.

1. U (2 man) makes OOB call on end line opposite table in the 2nd half, ball to the defensive team.
2. R2 (for next game) is walking along the same endline, en route to the table to watch the rest of this game.
3. Coach of offensive team complains about call, ending with "Everyone saw it but you."
4. R steps in and warns coach to cool it.
5. R2, now sitting behind the offensive bench, exclaims "that was a crappy call."
6. R calls T on coach, as the comment came just as he turned away.
7. R retracts T after finding it was the official who made the comment.

While this situation was made worse by the fact that the official was wearing his stripes, in my opinion, the worst thing an official can do is bad mouth another official during a contest; especially when those around him know he's an official, regardless of the sport.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You still didn't address my assumption directly. I'll change now, and assume that you weren't participating in chiding the official; at least on that particular play.

I'm a little testy about this subject this summer due to a situation here.

1. U (2 man) makes OOB call on end line opposite table in the 2nd half, ball to the defensive team.
2. R2 (for next game) is walking along the same endline, en route to the table to watch the rest of this game.
3. Coach of offensive team complains about call, ending with "Everyone saw it but you."
4. R steps in and warns coach to cool it.
5. R2, now sitting behind the offensive bench, exclaims "that was a crappy call."
6. R calls T on coach, as the comment came just as he turned away.
7. R retracts T after finding it was the official who made the comment.

While this situation was made worse by the fact that the official was wearing his stripes, in my opinion, the worst thing an official can do is bad mouth another official during a contest; especially when those around him know he's an official, regardless of the sport.

Hey Snaq I totally agree with you. I'm not one to undermine a fellow official in public like that. Doing the job has taught me otherwise.

No I was not one of the players yelling at the umpire, because I couldn't tell one way or the other.

The only time in this league I've ever spoken directly to an umpire about a call is this situation: My team is playing defense, and the batter hits a ball down the right field line. It falls in, really close to the line, probably right on the line. The umpire gives no signal. No point, no verbalization, nothing. I spoke to him after the game and asked him to do something next time so we know what's going on.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by bas2456

The only time in this league I've ever spoken directly to an umpire about a call is this situation: My team is playing defense, and the batter hits a ball down the right field line. It falls in, really close to the line, probably right on the line. The umpire gives no signal. No point, no verbalization, nothing. I spoke to him after the game and asked him to do something next time so we know what's going on.

That's the right mechanic. The only time an umpire is going to verbalize is on a FOUL ball. Fair ball, we play and nothing is said... Different sport, I know but that's just my 22 pesos.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by The Rooster

That's the right mechanic. The only time an umpire is going to verbalize is on a FOUL ball. Fair ball, we play and nothing is said... Different sport, I know but that's just my 22 pesos.

I know that nothing is said on a fair ball, but I was always taught that an umpire should just point to fair territory, not verbalizing "fair ball"

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm a little testy about this subject this summer due to a situation here.

1. U (2 man) makes OOB call on end line opposite table in the 2nd half, ball to the defensive team.
2. R2 (for next game) is walking along the same endline, en route to the table to watch the rest of this game.
3. Coach of offensive team complains about call, ending with "Everyone saw it but you."
5. R2, now sitting behind the offensive bench, exclaims "that was a crappy call."

You have every reason in the world to feel pissed off. That type of back-stabbing is thoroughly unprofessional(even though the judtech's of the world disagree).

That's an instant and well-deserved suspension in my association as soon as we find out about it. Aamof I don't know of any officiating group that wouldn't act somehow on a situation like that.

Did anybody report this one? Or were there other factors involved?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You have every reason in the world to feel pissed off. That type of back-stabbing is thoroughly unprofessional(even though the judtech's of the world disagree).

That's an instant and well-deserved suspension in my association as soon as we find out about it. Aamof I don't know of any officiating group that wouldn't act somehow on a situation like that.

Did anybody report this one? Or were there other factors involved?

I haven't spoken to the R for that game, who actually heard the comment, so I couldn't tell you. The U, who couldn't hear it from across the court, decided to leave it in the hands of the veteran R and simply block R2.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You still didn't address my assumption directly. I'll change now, and assume that you weren't participating in chiding the official; at least on that particular play.

I'm a little testy about this subject this summer due to a situation here.

1. U (2 man) makes OOB call on end line opposite table in the 2nd half, ball to the defensive team.
2. R2 (for next game) is walking along the same endline, en route to the table to watch the rest of this game.
3. Coach of offensive team complains about call, ending with "Everyone saw it but you."
4. R steps in and warns coach to cool it.
5. R2, now sitting behind the offensive bench, exclaims "that was a crappy call."
6. R calls T on coach, as the comment came just as he turned away.
7. R retracts T after finding it was the official who made the comment.

While this situation was made worse by the fact that the official was wearing his stripes, in my opinion, the worst thing an official can do is bad mouth another official during a contest; especially when those around him know he's an official, regardless of the sport.

Holy cow. Yeah, that guy would not work in my area or for anyone who knew me ever again. Good grief. It's one thing to say something around "the tree", or here. Completely another around participants. If I'm watching a game, and the official blows a call, and someone who knows I'm an official asks me about it - the very most you'll get out of me is "He's got a LOT better view of that play than we do - there's a reason you don't umpire from the stands"

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

the very most you'll get out of me is "He's got a LOT better view of that play than we do - there's a reason you don't umpire from the stands"

That's not bad: avoids the 2 lies people tell ("I didn't see it," and "Looked like he got it right" for an obviously blown call).

Another one I like is, "I don't think I saw the whole play," which provides a report about me rather than a comment on him or his call.