This past weekend in Vegas

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by tomegun

It can be all of the above, but in this case it was simply calling me on the phone for dumb stuff. This really applies for many occupations. It is like someone who always has to ask versus someone who knows what to do and may or may not back brief.

BNR, I'm thinking the only thing we will have at that time is Men's Wreakage. July was definitely the month to come out. NBA scrimmages, Euro League tryouts, huge high AAU tournaments. It was like Boo Williams on steroids.

Fixed it for ya'.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Fixed it for ya'.

No need to fix it. That is not my opinion of rec ball.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

I can only handle 4 games. Mentally and physically I break down at 4 games.

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

An official that has respect for himself and the game (IMO) will not work more than four games in a day.

I won't heap "everyone" into the same category and put a definite # on how many games an official can/should do. The official needs to decide when they believe they can not give the effort required.

Interestingly enough - my limit right now is also four (on a large HS court). MS or ES, maybe one more.

A few months back I did a tourney and was asked to do five. After I drove the 45 minutes or so home and pulled up at my house, getting out of my car was quite a challenge.....sore and stiff...... getting old I guess. But, it sure beats the alternative.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I won't heap "everyone" into the same category and put a definite # on how many games an official can/should do. The official needs to decide when they believe they can not give the effort required.

Interestingly enough - my limit right now is also four (on a large HS court). MS or ES, maybe one more.

A few months back I did a tourney and was asked to do five. After I drove the 45 minutes or so home and pulled up at my house, getting out of my car was quite a challenge.....sore and stiff...... getting old I guess. But, it sure beats the alternative.

This line is the exact reason why the assigner needs to decide how many games in a day: "The official needs to decide when they believe they can not give the effort required." Guys will walk up and down the court for the $$$ if we let them.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

This line is the exact reason why the assigner needs to decide how many games in a day: "The official needs to decide when they believe they can not give the effort required." Guys will walk up and down the court for the $$$ if we let them.

I'm not going to disagree, but I was referring more to a person like me, who knows his limits and won't try to exceed them, as opposed to someone possibly in the "making as much $ as they can and not caring about their performance mode."

But, I do not agree with an arbirtary number - such as four games. A 20-25 yr old may be able to do more, and someone 55-60, maybe not so much.

If an evaluator/assignor reviews every official and knows their limits, then they could/should assign accordingly. I just don't see that in my neck of the woods, and restrict myself based on my abilities.

[CoachCER]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I'm not going to disagree, but I was referring more to a person like me, who knows his limits and won't try to exceed them, as opposed to someone possibly in the "making as much $ as they can and not caring about their performance mode."

But, I do not agree with an arbirtary number - such as four games. A 20-25 yr old may be able to do more, and someone 55-60, maybe not so much.

If an evaluator/assignor reviews every official and knows their limits, then they could/should assign accordingly. I just don't see that in my neck of the woods, and restrict myself based on my abilities.

I agree that most of the younger guys can do okay with 4+, but in general, I think 4 is a decent cut-off for many.

When I coached AAU, there was nothing more frustrating than having the last Saturday game and getting someone who had worked 7 games that day. I frequently saw guys who I generally thought were very strong officials spit the bit after so many games. I also know that not all of them did it for the money, and instead were bailing out the assignor and replacing no shows, in which case all you can do is thank them for doing their best.

I used to 6-7 kids games (5th-6th grade) a day in my younger days, and I think I pulled it off okay, although I don't think I was nearly as sharp later in the day. I much preferred 4-5, but our group was small and I did what I was assigned.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by CoachCER

I agree that most of the younger guys can do okay with 4+, but in general, I think 4 is a decent cut-off for many.

When I coached AAU, there was nothing more frustrating than having the last Saturday game and getting someone who had worked 7 games that day. I frequently saw guys who I generally thought were very strong officials spit the bit after so many games. I also know that not all of them did it for the money, and instead were bailing out the assignor and replacing no shows, in which case all you can do is thank them for doing their best.

Astute points delivered in a classy manner. Many tournaments simply don't have enough officials. This next post explains why.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Perhaps the officials aren't paid enough per game (I have no knowledge of LV basketball, so I'm not specifically referring to it -- rather any sport where I have to stay in a hotel to work the games). I know that if I'm going to *go* someplace to officiate, it had better pay for all my expenses (hotel, meals) at a minimum. If it takes 8 games to do that, I'll probably work the 8 games.

If I'm told I'm only going to work 2 games a day and the pay is $20 a game, why would I want to work *at all*?

Rich points out that most summer tournaments don't want to pay enough for the officials. That's true. The Vegas pay was $30 for 3-man games and $35 for 2-man the last time that I was there. Now understand that these games are the full 32 minutes (whether played in 2 halves or 4 quarters) and the clock stops on all whistles. They are not running clock. So why is the game fee not closer to the regular season HS fee of $50 for 3-man and $60 for 2-man? My personal opinion is that this summer pay is too low. The tournament organizers and the assignors have to negotiate a better deal for the officials. Right now the out-of-town officials pay for their own lodging, transportation, and meals. If the tournament picked up some of that, then I would agree with the lower game fee.

We all know that if the pay was higher, then the event would be able to attract more officials. That would allow for assignors to limit people to 4-5 games per day instead of 7+. But as the saying goes, you get what you pay for. If the event wants to pay a low fee, then mostly it will be the low quality officials who will show up and desire to work a bunch of games.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by grunewar

A 20-25 yr old may be able to do more, and someone 55-60, maybe not so much.

If age is your criteria, then I can do about one quarter.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

If age is your criteria, then I can do about one quarter.

I believe I used enough "maybe's" in there to qualify my statement as an example and not the only factor. Besides, we all know you can do at least a half!

Me on the other hand....maybe not so much!