Question @Drive to the Basket

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Most of the time, I'll tell a player to "keep your hands off and move your feet" when defending above the FT line extended (not driving to the bucket) in the early going and this is where I will more than likely call a "hand check" if the player doesn't immediately drop the hands. It's the drive to the bucket where the odds of me using a "hand check" signal will give way to the "push" signal.

Probably not a good thing to do. Officials should refrain from coaching. Many coaches get upset when officials instruct their players.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Most of the time, I'll tell a player to "keep your hands off and move your feet" when defending above the FT line extended (not driving to the bucket) in the early going and this is where I will more than likely call a "hand check" if the player doesn't immediately drop the hands. It's the drive to the bucket where the odds of me using a "hand check" signal will give way to the "push" signal.

Is hand checking a foul? Let me answer my own quesiton...yes...then we need to call it and usually they stop doing it. At times we are our own worst enemies.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Probably not a good thing to do. Officials should refrain from coaching. Many coaches get upset when officials instruct their players.

Hmmmm....you never take the opportunity to have a little sidebar with a player during a game? I think taking a moment to talk with players about issues on the court and being approachable for players is a part of good game management. And, no, I'm not suggesting officials should have running conversations with one or multiple players in every contest.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Is hand checking a foul? Let me answer my own quesiton...yes...then we need to call it and usually they stop doing it. At times we are our own worst enemies.

Absolutely. And, I hear you...a foul is a foul is a foul.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Most of the time, I'll tell a player to "keep your hands off and move your feet" when defending above the FT line extended (not driving to the bucket) in the early going and this is where I will more than likely call a "hand check" if the player doesn't immediately drop the hands. It's the drive to the bucket where the odds of me using a "hand check" signal will give way to the "push" signal.

Why are you telling players to "move your feet"?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Can I even take both into consideration together??

I say no. Sounds like you properly ignored the hand in the back, if the player had beat his man and "played through the contact."

If I understand your description of the play correctly, the "questionable contact" did occur by itself. The other was over.

Sounds like a no call to me.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Absolutely. And, I hear you...a foul is a foul is a foul.

A1 has the ball in transition at the center jump circle, A3 & A4 are at the free throw line ahead of A1.

B1 is guarding A1. All other B players are still in the backcourt.

Seeing the advantage, A1 attempts to pass the ball to A3. During the pass, but before the ball has left A1's hand, B1 fouls A1 across the arm. The foul, while obvious, does nothing to change the speed or trajectory of the pass to A3. A3 has an uncontested layup with A4 there to clean up the action. The closest B player is 40 feet away.


"A foul is a foul is a foul" ?

No way........ Same Camron's response....

If it doen't affect the offensive player's advantage, then why would you take the advantage away?

Classic game stopper.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by asdf

Seeing the advantage, A1 attempts to pass the ball to A3. During the pass, but before the ball has left A1's hand, B1 contacts A1 across the arm. The contact, while obvious, does nothing to change the speed or trajectory of the pass to A3. A3 has an uncontested layup with A4 there to clean up the action. The closest B player is 40 feet away.

Calling it a foul when it wasn't a foul is part of the problem.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Calling it a foul when it wasn't a foul is part of the problem.

In the context of the subject at hand, I think most people would know what the heck I was talking about.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by asdf

A1 has the ball in transition at the center jump circle, A3 & A4 are at the free throw line ahead of A1.

B1 is guarding A1. All other B players are still in the backcourt.

Seeing the advantage, A1 attempts to pass the ball to A3. During the pass, but before the ball has left A1's hand, B1 fouls A1 across the arm. The foul, while obvious, does nothing to change the speed or trajectory of the pass to A3. A3 has an uncontested layup with A4 there to clean up the action. The closest B player is 40 feet away.


"A foul is a foul is a foul" ?

No way........ Same Camron's response....

If it doen't affect the offensive player's advantage, then why would you take the advantage away?

Classic game stopper.

Would agree...no foul in this case.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why are you telling players to "move your feet"?

Seriously? I think you know the answer.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Would agree...no foul in this case.

Agreed...I'm passing on that one. No brainer.

(Yes, it's a foul - but would be poor GM to blow on that one.)

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Agreed...I'm passing on that one. No brainer.

(Yes, it's a foul - but would be poor GM to blow on that one.)

If it's a foul, why don't you blow the whistle? A good official never "passes" on a foul, especially in the name of "game management".

Or, is it really contact that never caused a disadvantage? If so, then it's not a foul, and there's nothing to call.

A subtle but important difference. In asdf's play, he said "B1 fouls A1 across the arm." Then the official needs to call it, because a foul occurred. If, however, the true meaning was "B1 contacted A1's arm, and the pass was not affected", then the contact was ruled incidental, a foul did not occur, and therefore there was nothing to call.

A foul is a foul, period. Contact, however can be incidental, or it can be a foul. If it's incidental contact, then there's no foul. Words, and their specific meanings, are important.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

If it's a foul, why don't you blow the whistle? A good official never "passes" on a foul, especially in the name of "game management".

Or, is it really contact that never caused a disadvantage? If so, then it's not a foul, and there's nothing to call.

A subtle but important difference. In asdf's play, he said "B1 fouls A1 across the arm." Then the official needs to call it, because a foul occurred. If, however, the true meaning was "B1 contacted A1's arm, and the pass was not affected", then the contact was ruled incidental, a foul did not occur, and therefore there was nothing to call.

A foul is a foul, period. Contact, however can be incidental, or it can be a foul. If it's incidental contact, then there's no foul. Words, and their specific meanings, are important.

I agree. It would def have to be classified as "incidental" contact. And, we move on.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

If it's a foul, why don't you blow the whistle? A good official never "passes" on a foul, especially in the name of "game management".

Or, is it really contact that never caused a disadvantage? If so, then it's not a foul, and there's nothing to call.

A subtle but important difference. In asdf's play, he said "B1 fouls A1 across the arm." Then the official needs to call it, because a foul occurred. If, however, the true meaning was "B1 contacted A1's arm, and the pass was not affected", then the contact was ruled incidental, a foul did not occur, and therefore there was nothing to call.

A foul is a foul, period. Contact, however can be incidental, or it can be a foul. If it's incidental contact, then there's no foul. Words, and their specific meanings, are important.

How about if B1 in the course of trying to stop A1's pass to A3 knocks A1 to the floor, yet the pass is still on target? B1 displaced A1 which by definition, is a foul.....

You killing this?