Jump stop vs "up and down"

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And what rule states that a player leaving the floor to SHOOT can then change his mind in mid-air and legally land on both feet simultaneously?

Now you know better than to ask that. A basketball play is legal unless some rule prohibits it. Don't play burden tennis with me, buster!

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The rules sureashell DO discriminate between intentions. By rule, a player that has left the floor to SHOOT now has only two legal options before landing again. Shooting or passing! A player going up to shoot cannot change his mind and decide to do a jump stop instead. That's traveling as per the rules already cited.

The rules you cited assume that a pivot has been established. That's not the OP. I'm repeating myself (where's M&M when you need him?).

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And btw, you also seem to be ignoring rule 4-44-4(a) also where there is no pivot foot. And I haven't seen a comment either on casebook play 4.44.3SitA(b&c) which is the same as the situation outlined in the OP.

I don't think I'm ignoring 4-44-4(a). Here it is:
"ART. 4....After coming to a stop when neither foot can be a pivot:
a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the floor before
the ball is released on a pass or try for goal."

In this rule there's no pivot foot because neither foot can be a pivot, for example AFTER a jump stop. That's NOT the OP, where there's no pivot foot because a pivot has yet to be established. As you so often intone: apples and oranges.

Here's the case play you cite:

4.44.3 SITUATION A: A1 jumps to try for goal. B1 also jumps and: (a) slaps the
ball out of A1’s hands; (b) touches the ball but does not prevent A1 from releasing
the ball; (c) touches the ball and A1 returns to the floor holding the ball; or
(d) touches the ball and A1 drops it to the floor and touches it first after it
bounces. RULING: In (a) and (b), the ball remains live. In (c), a traveling violation.
In (d), a violation for starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. Since
the touching did not prevent the pass or try in (b), (c) and (d), the ball remains
live and subsequent action is covered by rules which apply to the situation.

Although you point us to (b) and (c) here, I'll mention the ruling in (d), which makes explicit the assumption of the entire case: a pivot foot had already been established by A1 before leaving the floor. That is NOT the OP, and so not relevant.

Once again: the only rules and cases that seem to support your opinion are those that assume or state that a pivot has already been established before the player leaves the floor. Since that is NOT the case in the OP, those rules and cases are irrelevant.

Many times you have urged me to reconsider my opinion when it was me against the world. Usually it's JAR in that position (sorry JAR -- cheap shot!), but you need to rethink this one, IMO.